Comments on: If SA can’t create 500 000 jobs, then your job is on the line

By: Nick

Nick — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:05:07 +0000

good idea Robert. If you read guys like James Kunstler, they say it’s inevitable. The industry of the future will be agriculture, farming. Hard to believe, but we are already struggling to feed ourselves (or to afford food grown by others).
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13944900

By: Robert

Robert — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:37:08 +0000

Why don’t the Government start a “kibuts” like in Israel where people are paid with a meal and place to sleep for working during the day in farming , planting vegetables etc.
instead of laying around in towns.

Every town could have a “kibuts” for the jobless or homeless.

By: Dave F

Dave F — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:49:49 +0000

@Phillipa I’m faintly curious about where you get these diktats from. They seem to be preconcieved and not supported by any rational thought. Why do you assume that more black businesses would narrow the _wage_ gap? (Something I am very much in favour of, but I suspect I differ on how this should be done.) I’ve spoken with a number of black domestic workers trying to get their kids into school, and over and over I’ve been told that exploitation is in fact the inverse of what you suggest. I’m not trying to pretend any of these people are saints or that exploitation isn’t rife. I know it is not politically correct, but poor black women rate black employers and Chinese, followed by Indians and then poor whites as worst, then rich whites – with first choice being middle class whites. And men usually pay better than women and expect less hours. My Bruv was involved in union organising years back, and black building contractors were some of the worst exploiters of black employees. We need more business, yes. We need ethical employers (not by race!) and motivated skilled maths and languages (I mean English. You are going have a hissy again, but it’s that or Mandarin) potential employees. We need grow the pie, which will stop people being frightened of losing their piece, and create loads of opportunity. Demand needs to exceed supply. There is no real demand for unskilled labour, or B.SocSci(Limpopo).

By: mundundu

mundundu — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:39:15 +0000

nick, charlene:

i’m actually part of an internet community that compares and contrasts these very things [parallels between africa and latin america].

the short version is the most similarities in latin america to the situation in southern africa in general and the SADC in particular are in the few countries where the native populations are a plurality or the majority of the population. note that i said “native” and not “black”.

a closer look into peruvian, ecuadorian, paraguayan and certainly bolivian politics shows that, for lack of a better term, the natives are getting restless about their lack of representation when it comes to receiving income from natural resources. the “land” argument on this side of the pond turns into “oil and gas revenues” on that side of the pond. while toledo had been too far removed from facts on the ground for too long to be particularly effective [a peruvian mbeki?], morales sounds positively mugabe-esque in a lot of his saber-rattling. in fact, you actually hear mugabe’s name amongst the [white] cattle ranchers in eastern bolivia, where most of the natural gas lives.

in these countries [the ones with native majorities] the role of religion is not as much of an issue as it is in other countries [even though lugo was a priest before becoming president of paraguay], in large part because christianity was integrated into and not a replacement for the native religions [sound familiar?].

By: mundundu

mundundu — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:22:15 +0000

wow, phillipa says something that is almost correct. i’m impressed.

to, wit: blacks need to have more businesses.

this is true. black people need to have more businesses. having a business tends to mean taking the initiative to do it yourself instead of waiting for someone to hire you.

in the case of graduates, it means that you should be networking while a student — both among students and lecturers during term, and among shopkeepers and other entrepreneurs both inside and outside term.

By: Dave F

Dave F — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:30:56 +0000

@Phillipa, that’s my point – at a good model C school black kids do as well as white kids. They emerge with good numeracy, language and social contacts and interaction skills. These children normally do well and suffer relatively little disadvantage in the middle rank if any, and some advantage with uptake for tertiary education at the top – but they still make up a very small – ?10% of the matriculants evey year. That’s what every child, regardless of colour, deserves. It’s not racial discrimination holding them back (there is some, agreed) it’s bad schooling. Fix the schooling and I believe 90% of the racial disparity will evaporate. (and yes, I am involved and have put my money where my mouth is). What I mean by ‘threatening’ is that employers from the same culture find women less indimidating and easier to fit into an organisation. Generally, women are less aggressive (exceptions, obviously), and are more capable of dealing with conflict and the insecurity posed by their promotion in a non-confrontational way. Therefore they are not threatening. It’s a statement of fact, not swartgevaar. It sadly has an effect on the type of AA black canditates chosen too.

As an amusing aside my work area is about 80% female dominated… and the excuses from them as to why this is just fine… is like listening to MCPs from 1970 explaining why women can’t do the job. No effect on me, but it shows similarity of dominant groups.

By: Phillipa Lipinsky

Phillipa Lipinsky — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:37:38 +0000

@Dave, more and more black kids are going to better schools and doing well there, even UCT Vice-Chancellor, Max Price said so. The HSRC and other research aithorities have also proven. What do you mean when you say that white women are “less threatening”. Are you expressing some kind of swaartgevaar. Well, that explains your attitude. In fact it offeres a lot of insight; blacks are considered as being “threatening”. You have answered your own question and mine.

@ Charlene: if you read again you will SEE that my SOURCE is the HSRC!

By: Phillipa Lipinsky

Phillipa Lipinsky — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:30:10 +0000

@Craig- that’s exactly why the gap between the rich and poor needs to be narrowed. THAT’S why more blacks need to have businesses. So that they can absord the massive number of unemployed people because current employement trends indicate a racial bias. Whites are being employed in droves while blacks, even those who are more competent than some whites are left out in the cold; poor, unemployed and starving to death.

By: Nick

Nick — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:18:51 +0000

That is really interesting. The influence of religion on a people. I think there is some significant impact on the white population here. Perhaps a way to fight crime and corruption is to evangelise the black elite? The other thing you mention is attitudes. I know in South Korea, where I lived for 4 years, there is a culture of honesty and honor. Stealing is absolutely verboten, and if you are found guilty of corruption you commit suicide (as the ex-president there recently did). I think the government has to get the media, churches, schools etc. on the ‘culture of honor’ bandwagon. I think sport is also a way that we can feel proud of who we are. Not being negative but realistically speaking South Africans have a lot to be ashamed of. I think through achievements and success we can turn that around, but everything starts with attitude. The closest ally to attitude is probably a new belief system. I’m not a Christian but if Christianity helps de-criminalise the country why not? It seems to me if you have diverse cultures the best way to unify them is through beliefs.
You never know, a common enemy (like a lethal swine flu pandemic) could also remind us where our priorities should lie. Seems South Africa is sitting prettier than most countries both economically and in the pandemic stakes. Whether that is really or true or will continue to be is another story.

By: craig

craig — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:48:54 +0000

@Francisca – that sounds like having a pot of money to pay to people and trying to find something for them to do to earn it. It is socialist government handouts – not real jobs based on real demand.