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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;We never thought it could happen here&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/</link>
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		<title>By: Consulting Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13521</link>
		<dc:creator>Consulting Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13521</guid>
		<description>@Yam


You are confused. Funny you only pick on the White example.

The Skielik killings were no incitement to racial hatred or violence. He incited no one. Just did the killing himself. No white ever incited any killing, nor was further killing called for.

Now the ANC official outside who led the mob in &#039;Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer&#039;, the ANC offical who said &#039;We will kill you Whites like flies&#039;, Meneer Mandela who chanted &#039;Kill the amaBhulu, kill them all&#039; etc 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKiePbTcAfY

When said to mobs, is this not incitement to racial violence?

Why do you not suggest they be punished? I have news for you; they will not be. 

Tolerance is something expected only of whites, and incitement of racial violence appears to be a charge to which Blacks are granted immunity. To accuse them of it is racist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Yam</p>
<p>You are confused. Funny you only pick on the White example.</p>
<p>The Skielik killings were no incitement to racial hatred or violence. He incited no one. Just did the killing himself. No white ever incited any killing, nor was further killing called for.</p>
<p>Now the ANC official outside who led the mob in &#8216;Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer&#8217;, the ANC offical who said &#8216;We will kill you Whites like flies&#8217;, Meneer Mandela who chanted &#8216;Kill the amaBhulu, kill them all&#8217; etc<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKiePbTcAfY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKiePbTcAfY</a></p>
<p>When said to mobs, is this not incitement to racial violence?</p>
<p>Why do you not suggest they be punished? I have news for you; they will not be. </p>
<p>Tolerance is something expected only of whites, and incitement of racial violence appears to be a charge to which Blacks are granted immunity. To accuse them of it is racist.</p>
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		<title>By: Yam</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13447</link>
		<dc:creator>Yam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13447</guid>
		<description>That was heartbreaking to read... all South Africans must learn from the experiences of the Kenyan people. We have to start being more tolerant of each other with actions and not just talk. And any icitement to racial hatred must be punished, ie. the Skielik murders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was heartbreaking to read&#8230; all South Africans must learn from the experiences of the Kenyan people. We have to start being more tolerant of each other with actions and not just talk. And any icitement to racial hatred must be punished, ie. the Skielik murders</p>
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		<title>By: Consulting Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13249</link>
		<dc:creator>Consulting Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13249</guid>
		<description>“We never thought it could happen here” is the most common phrase in SA today, with regards to brutal killings, home attacks, ESKOM etc.

In many decades of conflict the sight of white families brutally murdered in their homes is some of the worst violence ever experienced among many of the nicest people in the world. 

Farmers, the aged, the young, thousands every year, hundreds of families. Now only blood and pieces of bodies remain.

Teachers and children across SA get attacked and are profoundly traumatised. Young children say why did they shoot dada for our car? Why didnt they buy one themselves?

There is possibly not one white South African  who has not been touched by the violence, either directly or through a family member or friend.

A government spokesman said if you don&#039;t like the crime you can leave.

They killed thousands of our people. We didn’t retaliate. Fear is everywhere. 

With no power, farm attacks, land claims etc major agricultural exports are declining. What is probably more dangerous to the economy and employment figures — which in turn affect stability — is the vast number of small businesses who will be forced to shut down.

Dante wrote that “hell is reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality” — the world has learned too few lessons from Zimbabwe. 

Oops, who cares? These are White people. It is not PC to worry about their plight. There is a deafening silence in the world media. The sooner this embarrassing white tribe of Africa disappears the better. Lets rather focus on Kenya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“We never thought it could happen here” is the most common phrase in SA today, with regards to brutal killings, home attacks, ESKOM etc.</p>
<p>In many decades of conflict the sight of white families brutally murdered in their homes is some of the worst violence ever experienced among many of the nicest people in the world. </p>
<p>Farmers, the aged, the young, thousands every year, hundreds of families. Now only blood and pieces of bodies remain.</p>
<p>Teachers and children across SA get attacked and are profoundly traumatised. Young children say why did they shoot dada for our car? Why didnt they buy one themselves?</p>
<p>There is possibly not one white South African  who has not been touched by the violence, either directly or through a family member or friend.</p>
<p>A government spokesman said if you don&#8217;t like the crime you can leave.</p>
<p>They killed thousands of our people. We didn’t retaliate. Fear is everywhere. </p>
<p>With no power, farm attacks, land claims etc major agricultural exports are declining. What is probably more dangerous to the economy and employment figures — which in turn affect stability — is the vast number of small businesses who will be forced to shut down.</p>
<p>Dante wrote that “hell is reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality” — the world has learned too few lessons from Zimbabwe. </p>
<p>Oops, who cares? These are White people. It is not PC to worry about their plight. There is a deafening silence in the world media. The sooner this embarrassing white tribe of Africa disappears the better. Lets rather focus on Kenya.</p>
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		<title>By: braveheart</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13227</link>
		<dc:creator>braveheart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13227</guid>
		<description>Kenya always had a problem. My Zimbabewan friends used to draw parallels between Arap Moi and Robert Mugabe, the teargassing of students at the universities in Nairobi and in Harare. The suppression of opposition, the similarity of KANU and ZANU. 

Now when the saviour becomes the villain what happens. He cannot assert the fear that the dictator instilled in the populace (reminds one of Saddam). So people can go beserk and burn everything they can lay their hands on. In the meanwhile comes a truly myopic opposition leader. The situation is calming. He wins a crucial Speaker&#039;s seat and how does he celebrate the democratic victory he calls for three days of protests which he cannot control. The result mayhem. I was in London when I saw the mob on TV uprooting a rail track with their bare hands. For the sake of crying out loud, that was expensive  infrastructure. Does Mr Odinga want to preside over inxiwa i.e. ruins. Mr Odinga has not behaved responsibly as has Mr Kibaki. He has become over excited at his perceived support and ability to arouse the wrath of the &quot;masses&quot; which I term incitement.

The situation is similar to the other foolish behaviour of a &quot;povo&quot; that is easily excitable, manipulated and that is not armed with the critical consciousness to reclaim the state from the party and make decisions that build the nation and not destroy it. That is South Africa. The violent delivery protests, the Khutsong scenario, some sentiments about the troubles of Jacob Zuma and the burning of the train. All these point to a recipe for disaster and the danger of selfish, cunning politicians. Lord Betrand Russell in his essay &quot;The ancestry of fascism&quot; made a good point of how easy it is to selfishly exploit people&#039;s grievances and appear the hero but lead to dictatorship and anarchy. I was joking with a friend from Zimbabwe who was laughing at me saying if we were experiencing the kinds of powercuts they have in Zim Metro rail and Transnet rail or Spoornet will cease to exist. Somebody in cutting fashion said during PW&#039;s time they would not have gotten away with burning trains and besides who uses the trains. The only people who were capable of such arson were taxi owners then. Zimbabwe for all its problems does not have such acts. Which got me thinking about what the Soviet Glasnost era Foreign affairs Minister Shevadnadze said when he became president of one of the former soviet republics is it Georgia. On being asked about seemingly undemocratic tactics he remarked that order in some countries could only be maintained by such tactics. So when strongman Robert Mugabe goes, and no one respects the other what happens? Will Zimbabweans leave the only thing that has kept the country in relative stability i.e. the pursuit of money, trying to make a living, seeking economic livelihood elsewhere (thank heavens they are in demand and have the skills and work ethic and adaptability to live anywhere).Or perhaps Zimbabweans have the consciousness not to be manipulated into burning their country in a post dictatorship era. Or will people long for the stability of the strongman era.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenya always had a problem. My Zimbabewan friends used to draw parallels between Arap Moi and Robert Mugabe, the teargassing of students at the universities in Nairobi and in Harare. The suppression of opposition, the similarity of KANU and ZANU. </p>
<p>Now when the saviour becomes the villain what happens. He cannot assert the fear that the dictator instilled in the populace (reminds one of Saddam). So people can go beserk and burn everything they can lay their hands on. In the meanwhile comes a truly myopic opposition leader. The situation is calming. He wins a crucial Speaker&#8217;s seat and how does he celebrate the democratic victory he calls for three days of protests which he cannot control. The result mayhem. I was in London when I saw the mob on TV uprooting a rail track with their bare hands. For the sake of crying out loud, that was expensive  infrastructure. Does Mr Odinga want to preside over inxiwa i.e. ruins. Mr Odinga has not behaved responsibly as has Mr Kibaki. He has become over excited at his perceived support and ability to arouse the wrath of the &#8220;masses&#8221; which I term incitement.</p>
<p>The situation is similar to the other foolish behaviour of a &#8220;povo&#8221; that is easily excitable, manipulated and that is not armed with the critical consciousness to reclaim the state from the party and make decisions that build the nation and not destroy it. That is South Africa. The violent delivery protests, the Khutsong scenario, some sentiments about the troubles of Jacob Zuma and the burning of the train. All these point to a recipe for disaster and the danger of selfish, cunning politicians. Lord Betrand Russell in his essay &#8220;The ancestry of fascism&#8221; made a good point of how easy it is to selfishly exploit people&#8217;s grievances and appear the hero but lead to dictatorship and anarchy. I was joking with a friend from Zimbabwe who was laughing at me saying if we were experiencing the kinds of powercuts they have in Zim Metro rail and Transnet rail or Spoornet will cease to exist. Somebody in cutting fashion said during PW&#8217;s time they would not have gotten away with burning trains and besides who uses the trains. The only people who were capable of such arson were taxi owners then. Zimbabwe for all its problems does not have such acts. Which got me thinking about what the Soviet Glasnost era Foreign affairs Minister Shevadnadze said when he became president of one of the former soviet republics is it Georgia. On being asked about seemingly undemocratic tactics he remarked that order in some countries could only be maintained by such tactics. So when strongman Robert Mugabe goes, and no one respects the other what happens? Will Zimbabweans leave the only thing that has kept the country in relative stability i.e. the pursuit of money, trying to make a living, seeking economic livelihood elsewhere (thank heavens they are in demand and have the skills and work ethic and adaptability to live anywhere).Or perhaps Zimbabweans have the consciousness not to be manipulated into burning their country in a post dictatorship era. Or will people long for the stability of the strongman era.</p>
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		<title>By: Osofo Addo</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13192</link>
		<dc:creator>Osofo Addo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13192</guid>
		<description>A Moment Of Truth For  Africa…By Rev  P  E  Adotey Addo

 

The violence that  rocked the world

Reached  horrific levels  resulting  everywhere 

With loss of children, women, and men for days 

Burned in a church as they were seeking sanctuary

And sanctuary was denied 

In flames by mobs infuriated by  votes.

The  innocent  victims  faced their  rage

Seeking help from locked doors and homes ending

As charred bodies and trash in the once silent streets

No water from kinfolks and no  food  from  neighbors 

With nothing   gained to be sure.

Only we can save ourselves from this rage

 

Dedicated to Those who lost their lives  in the

Post Elections Riots.Kenya .  January 2008</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Moment Of Truth For  Africa…By Rev  P  E  Adotey Addo</p>
<p>The violence that  rocked the world</p>
<p>Reached  horrific levels  resulting  everywhere </p>
<p>With loss of children, women, and men for days </p>
<p>Burned in a church as they were seeking sanctuary</p>
<p>And sanctuary was denied </p>
<p>In flames by mobs infuriated by  votes.</p>
<p>The  innocent  victims  faced their  rage</p>
<p>Seeking help from locked doors and homes ending</p>
<p>As charred bodies and trash in the once silent streets</p>
<p>No water from kinfolks and no  food  from  neighbors </p>
<p>With nothing   gained to be sure.</p>
<p>Only we can save ourselves from this rage</p>
<p>Dedicated to Those who lost their lives  in the</p>
<p>Post Elections Riots.Kenya .  January 2008</p>
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		<title>By: LG</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13189</link>
		<dc:creator>LG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13189</guid>
		<description>...if IM is so obsess with this article why don&#039;t he just give us his own which is true and factful, its people like this who always go all their out to make people lives miserable...well said and i believe we will continue to assert whoever dares to challenge that we are Africans.every gov is fragile, anything is possible, i hope we are not going to count ourselves out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;if IM is so obsess with this article why don&#8217;t he just give us his own which is true and factful, its people like this who always go all their out to make people lives miserable&#8230;well said and i believe we will continue to assert whoever dares to challenge that we are Africans.every gov is fragile, anything is possible, i hope we are not going to count ourselves out.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13183</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13183</guid>
		<description>A key phrase in this blog is &quot;.. those with nothing to lose ...&quot; That is the difference between a colourful neighbour and an implacable foe to be destroyed.
If you have nothing and are surrounded by those who have everything, your natural impulse is to reduce all around you to your own level of devastation.
Add to that the example of a looting culture from those in power and you have the recipe for excess.
I think the meltdown in Kenya is horrific, but am even more apprehensive about the denouement in ZimBobwe that is yet to come. 
Are we building up to the same head of steam?
One third unemployment, floods of indigent illegal immigrants, universal examples of corruption as a way of life, from &#039;lunch&#039; for a traffic cop, to political leaders being cheered and chaired, shoulder-high, into jail.
The recipe is there. Plenty of people with &#039;nothng to lose&#039; and plenty of examples of contempt for the law.
Cry, the beloved country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A key phrase in this blog is &#8220;.. those with nothing to lose &#8230;&#8221; That is the difference between a colourful neighbour and an implacable foe to be destroyed.<br />
If you have nothing and are surrounded by those who have everything, your natural impulse is to reduce all around you to your own level of devastation.<br />
Add to that the example of a looting culture from those in power and you have the recipe for excess.<br />
I think the meltdown in Kenya is horrific, but am even more apprehensive about the denouement in ZimBobwe that is yet to come.<br />
Are we building up to the same head of steam?<br />
One third unemployment, floods of indigent illegal immigrants, universal examples of corruption as a way of life, from &#8216;lunch&#8217; for a traffic cop, to political leaders being cheered and chaired, shoulder-high, into jail.<br />
The recipe is there. Plenty of people with &#8216;nothng to lose&#8217; and plenty of examples of contempt for the law.<br />
Cry, the beloved country.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13172</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13172</guid>
		<description>Their problem not ours. We have enough of our own worries, high crime, worlds highest rape rate, anANC gverment, 40% un-employment, to worry about with out worring over other nations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Their problem not ours. We have enough of our own worries, high crime, worlds highest rape rate, anANC gverment, 40% un-employment, to worry about with out worring over other nations.</p>
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		<title>By: Mohamed</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13091</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohamed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13091</guid>
		<description>Charlene Smith, I am a Kenyan &amp; I&#039;ve also been following the Kenyan media extensively &amp; hence can attest to the correctness of your article! Forget about IM, s/he is most likely a Kibaki—apologist. According to the East African Standard (Kenyan paper), the Kenyan Medical professionals are so divided—along tribal lines—that now, it&#039;s feared that medical massacre might happen in the hospitals! I am almost 40 years old &amp; I’ve never thought that anything remotely close to what is now happening in Kenya—would happen in my beloved country—it’s like a bad dream! Please pray for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlene Smith, I am a Kenyan &amp; I&#8217;ve also been following the Kenyan media extensively &amp; hence can attest to the correctness of your article! Forget about IM, s/he is most likely a Kibaki—apologist. According to the East African Standard (Kenyan paper), the Kenyan Medical professionals are so divided—along tribal lines—that now, it&#8217;s feared that medical massacre might happen in the hospitals! I am almost 40 years old &amp; I’ve never thought that anything remotely close to what is now happening in Kenya—would happen in my beloved country—it’s like a bad dream! Please pray for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/comment-page-1/#comment-13089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/24/we-never-thought-it-could-happen-here/#comment-13089</guid>
		<description>Excellently written, Charlene. And you spent two weeks RIGHT THERE rather than just pull stories off the news agencies. Two weeks of &quot;immersion&quot; in a story is a very substantial immersion indeed, especially when you are not just absorbing the general atmosphere as a tourist might, but are actively following the trail of stories. 

Well done for giving us names, ages and pen-pictures of these unfortunates. When the killings and the travails afflict hundreds and thousands of people, they become dehumanised by news coverage. We read about it and go to the kitchen for a cheese sandwich and sit there thinking that they don&#039;t make PROPER cheese any more. The horror story is lost in our hunger pang simply because it had no faces with which to connect. It happened to a mob. Somewhere where nobody we know lives anyway.

If strangers are to bother about these benighted people, we have to cease being so strangerly. If we have knowledge of real people with real identities facing personal crises, we may more readily empathise and get off our chumps to assist. Even if it is just to spare a thought and write a cheque or something.

You did a good thing, Charlene. Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellently written, Charlene. And you spent two weeks RIGHT THERE rather than just pull stories off the news agencies. Two weeks of &#8220;immersion&#8221; in a story is a very substantial immersion indeed, especially when you are not just absorbing the general atmosphere as a tourist might, but are actively following the trail of stories. </p>
<p>Well done for giving us names, ages and pen-pictures of these unfortunates. When the killings and the travails afflict hundreds and thousands of people, they become dehumanised by news coverage. We read about it and go to the kitchen for a cheese sandwich and sit there thinking that they don&#8217;t make PROPER cheese any more. The horror story is lost in our hunger pang simply because it had no faces with which to connect. It happened to a mob. Somewhere where nobody we know lives anyway.</p>
<p>If strangers are to bother about these benighted people, we have to cease being so strangerly. If we have knowledge of real people with real identities facing personal crises, we may more readily empathise and get off our chumps to assist. Even if it is just to spare a thought and write a cheque or something.</p>
<p>You did a good thing, Charlene. Well done.</p>
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