Comments on: Tribalism is the word that must now be spoken — to avoid its perils http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/ Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:41:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Adriana http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-2/#comment-81306 Adriana Wed, 13 May 2009 16:43:45 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-81306 Hello everyone! I am a white women from Europe, and I am married with a black man from US; what I read on this site, all this comments....it is obviuos that you are intelligent people, but for one second think about this: we are all equal, regardless the color of your skin....if your skin is darker is because you have more pigment-melanin...this is the only difference; Mr. engineer, please don't raise your children to hate the other, they are the only one who will suffer from this! My kids will be mixed, does that means that they can not play with your kids? Hello everyone!
I am a white women from Europe, and I am married with a black man from US; what I read on this site, all this comments….it is obviuos that you are intelligent people, but for one second think about this: we are all equal, regardless the color of your skin….if your skin is darker is because you have more pigment-melanin…this is the only difference;
Mr. engineer, please don’t raise your children to hate the other, they are the only one who will suffer from this!
My kids will be mixed, does that means that they can not play with your kids?

]]> By: Sandi Krige http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-2/#comment-37244 Sandi Krige Wed, 28 May 2008 10:13:13 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-37244 It is interesting to note the relevance of this article and the strong responses it drew. The article was published on January 22 - its relevance has been strongly underwritten in the South Africa of April 2008. It is interesting to note the relevance of this article and the strong responses it drew. The article was published on January 22 – its relevance has been strongly underwritten in the South Africa of April 2008.

]]> By: Jenny Vorwerk http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-16536 Jenny Vorwerk Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:47:55 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-16536 I am utterly confused about the torrent of comment that has arisen about tribalism. Charlene started off by discussing the situation in Kenya. Consulting Engineeer is sometimes right, and sometimes horribly wrong. His anti-semitism and racism are worrying. I can see he has a lot of anger and I sympathise with him, being a half-Afrikaner myself. However, there is one thing all of you have in common. Your ability to express yourselves and talk freely about what is happening in Africa today, and how you would want it to happen (or not happen)in South Africa. And that is truly amazing. Please read an English (UK) newspaper. There isn't a decent honest response to anything. The English are so demoralized and de-tribalised and multi-culturalised and dumbed down,that they are absolutely unable to respond to anything. The UK is of course, a totally de-tribalised and multicultural country. It is a civil offence to discuss or promote tribalism, especially if one is an original Briton. Nothing, but nothing is PC. There is a culture of teenage crime and fatal attacks in north-London, Nottingham, Manchester, other cities. Kids are knifed to death. One never hears the word Black. Yet these are black kids in a big mess. Black kids who are yet again not able to achieve even in a country where schooling and child support are a given. Britain is unable to solve the problem of kids who are not in their normal environments, but in essentially, inner-city environments where they cannot, possibly, be mobile in the normal sense of the word. One is not permitted to discuss the problem as being a black kid problem. This of course, does not solve our apprehensions about tribalism and how we react to it in Africa, and how we would all prefer our country to be governed, but at least, at least, we are all able to shout about it. Our apprehension about tribalism is quite relevant. Afterall, we have lived under the Dutch, the British, the Boer and now the Xhosa. And we have a lot of comparisons to make. That is the crucial thing, we must keep on shouting about the lack of good governance, and the need for it, and the dominance of one tribe over another, if such a thing should arise. And yes, there has been sufficient time to learn about running a country well. Why hasn't the ANC learned the lesson? Are they deaf, dumb and blind to boot? They act like kids with no money in a toyshop, smash and grab. Even those ignorant Boers learned very quickly to run the country efficiently and to build a strong infra-structure. Australia until very recently, could not possibly compare with the infra-structure created by the so-called Boere. Yes, they indulged in nepotism, but not to the extent that the country suffered, and jobs were given to people who were totally unable to perform them. Viz. Eskom. In other words, the Boere learned about accountability. Even now, they are accountable for their actions during the Apartheid era. Will the ANC accept accountability for any of their inabilities? Like Mbeki defending Selebi? And the previous minister of Health? South Africa is a fantastic country with enormous potential. Pity it has to go down, like Kenya and the others. I personally don't think tribalism has much to do with it. I think greed and inefficiency, and cunning, has contributed to the slaughter and anarchy in these places. So, what are we going to do about it? How are we going to stop South Africa descending into the same abyss? Jenny/Spain I am utterly confused about the torrent of comment that has arisen about tribalism. Charlene started off by discussing the situation in Kenya. Consulting Engineeer is sometimes right, and sometimes horribly wrong. His anti-semitism and racism are worrying. I can see he has a lot of anger and I sympathise with him, being a half-Afrikaner myself.
However, there is one thing all of you have in common. Your ability to express yourselves and talk freely about what is happening in Africa today, and how you would want it to happen (or not happen)in South Africa. And that is truly amazing.
Please read an English (UK) newspaper. There isn’t a decent honest response to anything. The English are so demoralized and de-tribalised and multi-culturalised and dumbed down,that they are absolutely unable to respond to anything.
The UK is of course, a totally de-tribalised and multicultural country. It is a civil offence to discuss or promote tribalism, especially if one is an original Briton. Nothing, but nothing is PC.
There is a culture of teenage crime and fatal attacks in north-London, Nottingham, Manchester, other cities. Kids are knifed to death. One never hears the word Black. Yet these are black kids in a big mess. Black kids who are yet again not able to achieve even in a country where schooling and child support are a given. Britain is unable to solve the problem of kids who are not in their normal environments, but in essentially, inner-city environments where they cannot, possibly, be mobile in the normal sense of the word.
One is not permitted to discuss the problem as being a black kid problem.
This of course, does not solve our apprehensions about tribalism and how we react to it in Africa, and how we would all prefer our country to be governed, but at least, at least, we are all able to shout about it.
Our apprehension about tribalism is quite relevant. Afterall, we have lived under the Dutch, the British, the Boer and now the Xhosa. And we have a lot of comparisons to make.
That is the crucial thing, we must keep on shouting about the lack of good governance, and the need for it, and the dominance of one tribe over another, if such a thing should arise.
And yes, there has been sufficient time to learn about running a country well. Why hasn’t the ANC learned the lesson? Are they deaf, dumb and blind to boot? They act like kids with no money in a toyshop, smash and grab.
Even those ignorant Boers learned very quickly to run the country efficiently and to build a strong infra-structure. Australia until very recently, could not possibly compare with the infra-structure created by the so-called Boere.
Yes, they indulged in nepotism, but not to the extent that the country suffered, and jobs were given to people who were totally unable to perform them. Viz. Eskom.
In other words, the Boere learned about accountability. Even now, they are accountable for their actions during the Apartheid era.
Will the ANC accept accountability for any of their inabilities? Like Mbeki defending Selebi? And the previous minister of Health?
South Africa is a fantastic country with enormous potential. Pity it has to go down, like Kenya and the others.
I personally don’t think tribalism has much to do with it. I think greed and inefficiency, and cunning, has contributed to the slaughter and anarchy in these places.
So, what are we going to do about it? How are we going to stop South Africa descending into the same abyss?
Jenny/Spain

]]> By: Consulting Engineer http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-14046 Consulting Engineer Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:06:37 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-14046 @Shabalala You mean how after all this indoctrination, PC spin, and even outright threats againsts those that don't agree, can any one still resist and not have the same view. The PC view point is best summed up by rulings like Judge Ulrich Meinerzhagen in the trial of someone questioning the public version of the Holocaust “It is irrelevant whether the Holocaust occurred or not. Denying it is a punishable offense.” The facts, truth or evidence is irrelevant. To even question the PC version is a punishable offence. Democracy and free speech is great isn’t it? If you would only forget facts and just agree. @Shabalala

You mean how after all this indoctrination, PC spin, and even outright threats againsts those that don’t agree, can any one still resist and not have the same view.

The PC view point is best summed up by rulings like Judge Ulrich Meinerzhagen in the trial of someone questioning the public version of the Holocaust “It is irrelevant whether the Holocaust occurred or not. Denying it is a punishable offense.”

The facts, truth or evidence is irrelevant. To even question the PC version is a punishable offence. Democracy and free speech is great isn’t it? If you would only forget facts and just agree.

]]> By: aktshabalala http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-13975 aktshabalala Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:00:40 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-13975 enginner, You sort of socked us into inaction. i am sure ifyou write a bit further,we may get some thoughts to respond to you. We have just wondered amongst ourselves if in this day and age , there are people who can think so systemically wrongly. That is actualy the reason we ran quiet. how can such a great brain , get it so wrong! enginner,
You sort of socked us into inaction. i am sure ifyou write a bit further,we may get some thoughts to respond to you. We have just wondered amongst ourselves if in this day and age , there are people who can think so systemically wrongly.

That is actualy the reason we ran quiet. how can such a great brain , get it so wrong!

]]> By: Consulting Engineer http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-13403 Consulting Engineer Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:51:10 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-13403 @ Cool down There is plenty more in the Book of John where Jesus is talking to the Jews. There is much more our friend should read than genetics, although that is an interesting topic. It seems his reading has been restricted to PC teaching. The beginning of wisdom is to think for yourself and not blindly accept what is put forward to you and 'accepted'. To examine facts and data and draw conclusions and subject thoughts to falsification. These days SA school texts state that the definition of racism is the feeling of superiority of Europeans over africans and asians'. PC indoctrination. I guess only whites can be racist. One can only wonder at the motives of people that wrote such text books. @ Cool down

There is plenty more in the Book of John where Jesus is talking to the Jews. There is much more our friend should read than genetics, although that is an interesting topic. It seems his reading has been restricted to PC teaching.

The beginning of wisdom is to think for yourself and not blindly accept what is put forward to you and ‘accepted’. To examine facts and data and draw conclusions and subject thoughts to falsification.

These days SA school texts state that the definition of racism is the feeling of superiority of Europeans over africans and asians’. PC indoctrination. I guess only whites can be racist. One can only wonder at the motives of people that wrote such text books.

]]> By: Consulting Engineer http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-13397 Consulting Engineer Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:38:26 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-13397 @cool down Given what has happened in SA since 1994 it seems that required reading amongst many of the ANC was the communist propogandist Ilya Ehrenberg, a lithuanian of the same tribe as Slovo: 'Ehrenburg's incendiary writings were, in fact, a prime motivating factor in the orgy of murder and rape against the civilian population that took place ' 'In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill!' http://www.rense.com/general75/ehr.htm Certainly the Book of John would be prohibited reading to someone whith his views: John 8:41-44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Guess which tribe he was talking to. @cool down

Given what has happened in SA since 1994 it seems that required reading amongst many of the ANC was the communist propogandist Ilya Ehrenberg, a lithuanian of the same tribe as Slovo: ‘Ehrenburg’s incendiary writings were, in fact, a prime motivating factor in the orgy of murder and rape against the civilian population that took place ‘

‘In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill!’

http://www.rense.com/general75/ehr.htm

Certainly the Book of John would be prohibited reading to someone whith his views: John 8:41-44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Guess which tribe he was talking to.

]]> By: cool down. http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-13370 cool down. Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:34:37 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-13370 Aktshabalala, Recommended reading this week before you come back Mendel's Genetics. Aktshabalala,

Recommended reading this week before you come
back Mendel’s Genetics.

]]> By: Consulting Engineer http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-13311 Consulting Engineer Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:32:28 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-13311 @JP ek kry die gevoel die man smaak jy nie... Don't feel bad many others are proud of you brother. And shepherds we shall be. @JP

ek kry die gevoel die man smaak jy nie…

Don’t feel bad many others are proud of you brother.

And shepherds we shall be.

]]> By: aktshabalala http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/comment-page-1/#comment-13286 aktshabalala Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:37:34 +0000 http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/charlenesmith/2008/01/22/tribalism-is-the-word-that-must-now-be-spoken-to-avoid-its-perils/#comment-13286 Engineer, Thank you for that good research you have provided. I am sorry though to have fallen into a trap, which has allowed you to bing out you feelings about the Jewish community. sir , I would like to withdraw myself from that argument.. I have been arguing with somebody in thetimes; I ended up doing the same. Your feelings are too deep they will not be solved until Jesus comes back. I just cannot see how we can build the future together. Enjoy the day sir. You are so stuck in your prejudice I cannot help you. Engineer,
Thank you for that good research you have provided.

I am sorry though to have fallen into a trap, which has allowed you to bing out you feelings about the Jewish community. sir , I would like to withdraw myself from that argument..

I have been arguing with somebody in thetimes; I ended up doing the same.

Your feelings are too deep they will not be solved until Jesus comes back.

I just cannot see how we can build the future together. Enjoy the day sir.

You are so stuck in your prejudice I cannot help you.

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