I really loved this article

O you charmer. Lets see?

Yup I am probably more dangerous to the vegan cause than meat eaters. Like a double agent.

Humans and animals differ. Animals act according to instinct, humans have a conscience and can make logical and/or ethical choices etc.

I beleive it is wrong to stop carnivores eating meat, God never intended it that way. To stop them would be contrary to Natural Law. On the other hand God made humans in a higher form, His own image dare I say.

Humans can choose to eat meat, go vegetarian, go vegan. If animals are given a choice they eat what God ‘designed’ them to eat. Cows are naturally herbivores, baboons omnivores, and lions carnivores. Make a cow eat her own kind and mad cow disease is a possibility, force a lion to eat pasture and it dies of hunger.

As humans, it depends on what spins your wheels, sometimes its ethics, sometimes health, sometimes environment, sometimes peer pressure (braai vleis, rugby, sunny skies and Chevrolet) etc.

Here is my sole point of disagreement: vegans act consistently when cruelty is located and it is upon this consistency of action based on ethics that I base my argument. For example, if it is discovered that the shoelaces I use are somehow related to the exploitation of animals then my vegan principles impel me to actively seek alternatives. What you seem to advocate, in place of this, is to shrug off such new discoveries with, ‘ah well, nobody is perfect.’

You’re right, nobody is perfect, but we are all afforded countless opportunities to move towards or away from our ideals through our decisions and actions. If we are moving towards them, it’s likely that few people will mind much about whether or not we have to use flystrips

I agree with your marketing 101 approach as a way to engage people in a discussion around veganism, environmentalism, social justice, etc. but would add the provisio that it is reliant upon context: if somebody has already started arguing the ethics (as has happened here), it’s usually necessary (and, fortunately, rather easy) to engage them on that level.

Thanks again for your temperance and for your ongoing commitment to the important issues we’re discussing

I have enjoyed debating with you. You have not convinced me to go vegan yet.

A few weeks ago I had a letter published in a newspaper promoting ‘World go vegan week’ even though I am not one, I was then taken aback after my ‘good deed’ that I should have my ethical consistency questioned, and have quite an angry young vegan (Jackyl) on my case.

I believe you can only really use the ethical consistency argument if no finger can be pointed at vegans. Promote their ethical ways yes, but be cautious about calling others ethically inconsistent. In this imperfect world there is always wiggle room for someone to find some cruelty vegans cause.

Secondly, I was sincere when I suggested my marketing 101 ideas. I have always found it easier to wins an argument with people like our fellow debater Johan Swarts (above) by speaking of vegetarianism in terms of economic, health, environmetal benefits and feeding the starving, than on the basis of cruelty, ethics etc.

I will be rooting for you during “World Go Vegan Week”.

PS. I live on a smallholding and use flystrips to catch flies.