Like everyone else, I am horrified and sickened by the images of people being burned alive, chased from their homes, and other unspeakable acts of violence occurring on our doorsteps. However, I am not filled with a sense of charity in the light of these acts. My overwhelming response is: foreigners, go home.
Everyone can agree this should never have reached this point. By all indication, these feelings have been brewing for a long time, with many analysts surprised its taken this long to reach a point of explosion. It’s also debatable (as per Ndumiso’s excellent piece on this issue the other day) what the causes are. I tend to think that you have to follow the money and the booze. Looting and chaos like this is often not about any clear political issue, and is simply about people’s unchecked emotions bubbling over and creating a tolerant space for criminals and maniacs.
Still, there is one underlying issue with which its easy to sympathise. A Zimabwean man was interviewed by the BBC the other day. He is working in South Africa illegally as a driver. When asked whether he could understand why young South Africans could be angry with him he seemed baffled. “We are also just trying to make money”, he said, “Things are bad back home.”
Again, easy to feel gooey eyed at this. But let’s pause for a moment and understand this. This guy has crossed the border illegally and is now being given work illegally by a South African citizen with no work permit. He is, quite specifically, taking a job away from another South African. That pisses me off, actually.
South Africa doesn’t have the luxury of being generous with our jobs and our money to foreigners. We have a desperate unemployment problem here, coupled with Aids and a bewildering array of other causes for great poverty and misery. We need to focus our resources internally, uplifting our own population. Foreigners, I’m afraid, most especially illegal immigrants, need to go home.
I am startled by this incredible outpouring of love and support toward foreigners, expressed by bloggers, radio talkshow callers and the media. Again, some part of me understands this as I hear and see the suffering these people are experiencing. And don’t get me wrong, the violence is to be condemned in no uncertain terms. At the very least, as Thabo Mbeki said, these are humans just like us.
But where is the similar outpouring of understanding toward our own population, the frustration and misery of which has (at least in part) led to this situation in the first place? It’s a time for less compassion for foreigners, and more compassion toward our own starving, struggling, desperate fellow citizens.
We have failed to keep these foreigners out of our borders, that blame can be laid with the state. But we employ these people — how many people do you know who have illegal Malawian gardeners or builders or other labourers? We have created this problem, we have set the ball in motion leading to this point.
A peaceful resolution is desperately needed. The legal immigrants need to be differentiated from the illegal ones, but the government needs as a matter of urgency to send those who have no right to be here, back home. And the chain emails and Facebook groups trying to raise money to help these people out need to have a good rethink about focusing on helping our own people out.
To the foreigners, we need to send a clear message: go home and fix up your own countries. Even if we’re generous in favour of the MDC, something like 30-40% of Zimabweans voted for Robert Mugabe again in the last election, despite everything. That’s no-one’s fault. You don’t like your dictator, get rid of him, one way or the other. But don’t have 4 out of 10 of your buddies vote the guy back in, and then run over the border and make your problems ours.
Or, rather, you are welcome to do that, when we have 95% employment and are in a position to help. But we’re stretched too thin already. Sorry for your troubles, but South Africa is not in a position to assist right now.
One wonders why White people have a bad press in SA?
If you want to give jobs to SAs then stop beating up desperate Zims and do something about the widespread eviction of Black Farm Workers from SA farms when they change hands.
And changing them from food co-operatives to Game parks for tourist and hunters. Incidentally driving up the price of staple foods.
And 40% didn’t vote for Mugabe. ~1,000,000 to 800,000 voters were dead/dual or living in huts at 50 to a room, including examples of ghost polling stations that weren’t officially registerd.
Add on ~4-5 million who weren’t in the country due to being beaten up in 2002, mostly due to being MDC voters, and take off another ~1,000,000 who weren’t allowed to vote due to being left off the register or told they had to vote in a different ward, that sometimes didn’t exist, and because they had a foreign parent (which mysteriously didn’t include Mugabe who supposedly has a Malawian father.) and you get a figure of about 15%-20%
According to a secret Zanu report (allegedly).
Most of which were paid for, bribed or told to vote by someone standing behind them refusing them food if they didn’t “Vote correctly” and beating them to death with cycle chains if they objected.
Or is “South Africa’s leading developer of web applications” unable to add up or google Zimbabwe on the news channel?
Right wing stupidity isn’t going to solve the problems SA have finally noticed they have.
Actually addressing the problem of mass falsification of paperwork in order to legitimate a lying bunch of violent theiving wankers hold on power in both SA and Zim (and Kenya, and Congo et) might.
You are not the only who has concerns for the citizens of South Africa. Although i left Johannesburg in the mid 1980s I keep up with events there and worry for all the people of the highveld, who have no jobs, who are victims of crime, who are going hungry for lack of work.
Yes, the events of the past week seen in pictures are horrific – but so is the crime wave (where no pictures have reached the international media) that has been sweeping the highveld for many years. Friends of mine have been murdered and raped in the crime wave that seems to be tolerated by the Mbeki government.
I get email petitions from South Africa that are begging the world to pay attention to the crime and justice system that is unjust to South African citizens.
I can only hope that international pressure will now be applied the ANC government to deal with the crime and get the justice system back on track.
It is more than a bit ironic that the government and even the HRC bigwigs are calling on blacks’ sense of racial solidarity with their “brothers and sisters” in order to halt the violence. If there is a silver lining to all of this, it is that for the ordianry masses, a sense of patriotism actually trumps racial solidarity. It seems that black people are beginning to realize there is no salvation in the ANC’s essentially racist pan-Africanist ideology, where a Nigerian or even a black Haitian has first pickings of job offerings above local born whites.
Hitler and the Nazis used similar arguments in the prelude to the holocoust. In Rwanda, before the genocide, the Hutus were expressing opinions similar to yours against the Tutsis. I’m sure the ethnic cleansing we saw in Bosnia-Hertzegovinia was couched in similar justifications. We have claimed that we belong to the human race; that borders on the African continent were colonially imposed; and that our destiny is the same. Let us be true to our convictions and reject any attempt to impose artificial divisions on us as Africans. We should be free to emulate our forefatthers – and roam the continent as we damn please!
40% of Zimbabweans voted for Mugabe after all the disaster he has visited on his nation. And 70% of South Africans voted for the ANC regime after all their decade and a half of blunders, thievery, denials, incompetence and uselessness.
Wow! Isn’t THAT spooky?
As the political borders do not resemble africa’s natural borders one cannot say foreigners go home as for some their peoples live in many countries.
So a Shangaan lives in Limopo and Mozambique. A Swazi does 3 countries as do the Matabele.
Anyway foreigners usually help grow and economy, if managed properly.
We attract those who want a better life from africa. That is, they are normally the ones with some pioneer guts as most of our white forefathers were. We want people who want more from life as they have the guts to grow the economy.
Good one Jared
The clear logic of what you say is lost in the emotional outpouring. Fact is they are here illegally, are not refugees, and have no right to reside, never mind work here. No country accepts this and even the USA sees it as a big problem with Latinos.
It doesnt make killing them right, but fact is they shouldnt be here in the first place under any international law. if the ANC did their job and kept illegals out this wouldnt happen. People get fed up and take the law into their own hands the only way they can: intimidate them to go home.
Putting up no matter how many pictures of screaming children, torched shacks etc doesnt change the legality of their status: illegal. Its just emotional manipulation.
The outpouring of support is the liberals all trying to outdo each other with tears, remorse, blah blah. ‘Look how caring we are’. ‘Look at me, look how liberal and non-racial I am’. Ja Ja.
All the emotional outcrys do not change the fact that their being here is wrong.
How many have the balles to stand up and say what Jarred says. “They don’t belong here in the first place’. Most now say they are going home.
So was the xenophobia effective or not? Was the ANC tactic of ignoring the problem effective or not?
Another form of emotional manipulation is this allegation of nazi just launched at you. For the second time now.
@Monde
You want to emulate your forefathers and roam as you please? Well then why dont the Zulus have the same right to launch a Mfecane like their forefathers and slaughter the others as they please? Why dont whites have the right to colonise as we please?
Why dont we have the right to drive you out as we please, as many tribes used to do. In fact, the xenophobia is people acting like their forefathers and driving of invaders, so by your logic it should be fine.
Also then why dont we have the right to behave like our Nazi forefathers?
Still want us to go backwards? You undoubtably will come off second best.
There has never been africans. There have been tribes, each with their turf that kept apart.
Now go ahead and yell ‘Nazis’ all you like. Who cares? Just keep a look out for those acting like their forefathers, as you wish. It is far more likely to be you they come after than whitey.
Besides if whitey should also behave like his forefathers I should feel no compassion at all.
@willem
Yes its funny. The ‘non-racists’ calling on racist feelings of ‘racial solidarity’, much like I always do, ha ha!
A haitian or Nigerian has first pickings over local whites?? Damn. Where do we sign up for xenophobia lessons with our Zulu brothers?
@Alistair Budd
It is ANC left wing stupidity that got us into this mess, not right wing stupidity. Right wing law and order is needed.
Yes, all good and that. And while we’re at it, making migration hard, let’s go back a bit and make sure that all those annoying past migrants that aren’t currently contributing an awful lot go back to their places too.
Now this might not include you because you’re probably doing something useful, even if it’s just paying more tax than you use in services. It might include other members of your family who are skiving a bit though. Viva! Get them out unless they’re going to contribute more!
And patriotism trumping concern for human rights is a fabulous notion. Especially things like the anti-Shangaan patriotism as well – I mean, we all know that just because you’re the proud holder of a green SA ID book that doesn’t actually mean you’re a really truly lemons I-can’t-believe-it’s-not-butter South African.
Yes, people employing illegal immigrants is absolutely wrong on so many levels. So find them and charge them.
People with the requisite paperwork are entitled to try and support themselves especially as they have no safety net in the form of welfare assistance (not even the pathetic amount that some deserving South Africans can get if they really fight about it). If they can’t be employed then don’t let them in.
I note that the army can be deployed to fight its own people but not to curb illegal immigration. It’s all a bit reactive really and most of the country complains only now that they see it affecting their own lives, however indirectly. Before that, obviously the convenience of cheap labour or the lack of inconvenience because it’s ‘not my problem’ obviously ruled.
@Ricardo
Are you a legal or illegal immigrant? It is quite clear Jarred was referrring to illegals. he even said:
‘The legal immigrants need to be differentiated from the illegal ones’
What part of that can you not understand? he used the word illegal 6 times.
So if you are illegal, well then, go home as you are legally onliged to do. The legal ones come due to skills and should stay and be accepted.
And I couldn’t resist a last dig at this:
*South Africa doesn’t have the luxury of being generous with our jobs and our money to foreigners.*
Ja, go home, Joel Santana. We don’t need you taking our money, we could (but won’t) build houses in Alex with it. Jomo can have his old job back and if he doesn’t want it there are plenty more coaches here.
South Africa doesn’t have the luxury of turning away skilled foreigners. Look at the figures for how many African doctors are working for the health department just for a start. If we work ourselves up into a frenzy we could just drive them all home as well, and some essential clinics and other services would collapse.
Amongst the people are entering this country illegally each day are qualified teachers with 20 years of experience. Why would we want to kick them out when we could actually employ them, for example, as substitute teachers when required? We could even pay them a bit less as they’d need to be retrained to a small degree (but a damn sight less than it takes to train a high school grad). Then we could send them all home again once the new crop of matriculants that we’re trying to attract to teaching come through in all their numbers, right? It buys us some education professionals and makes their stay here less painful but clearly limited in span.
If people tried to think out of the box instead of weeping day and night about things they’re not prepared to make the effort to change anyway, we might get somewhere a bit more sensible.
As long as South Africa continues to be the economic powerhouse of Africa, we will have people braving crocodile infested rivers and electric fences to come here. The lesson we should learn from the failure of apartheid is that black people will kill for the privilege to live amongst whites. The only solution is to send more whites up north.
Jarred, the fact that you get applause from ‘Consulting Engineer’ should worry you if you have a little pride for your own intellect.
Why don’t you go and burn some immigrants? Don’t wanna get your hands dirty? Well, with writing this article, supporting the motives of a burning mob, you already did. There is a word for this: “Schreibtischtäter”.
There is not that much difference between “South Africa for South Africans” and “Africa for Africans” and the latter won’t be fun for you i assume.
CE
Come back to Christ’s blog. We are going for the 600 mark and don’t need you wasting your input over here.
Stick to computers Jarred.
Maybe you should also go home. Is it Israel, Lithuania, Germany, Poland or America?
I also thought of going home, but I can’t figure out if it is France, the Netherlands, Germany or South Africa.
The fact that you have so much support from Consulting Engineer, should worry you.
I agree that foreigners cause some problems in SA, but right now they are in desperate need of assistance, they are homeless, and without food. People need to help them first, deal with unhappy South Africans of course, but later. What happened to compassion for fellow man? Just because they are not South African we shouldn’t help them when they are in most need.
The government screwed up the immigration policy, for sure. I dont know about any other nation, but Zimbabweans should be declared refugees, sending them back to their country can mean a death sentence. I agree something needs to be done about the immigration policy desperately but right now we need to help those who need help most, and they are the ones on fire and hiding in police stations with no food.
Jared,
Must say that after what D. Bullard wrote about my race I become allergic to many columnists’ articles about my nation.
But I must say I’m quite impressed by your level of thinking and logic. I CONDEMN VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND….after the situation has stabilised, our brothers need to go back home. Come on now, let’s be honest to ourselves, we are not Americans. we are still struggling with the basic human needs, like employment, sanitation, clean water etc.
So brother, I see that this is not a racist article but a well thought out piece of writing. Bravo!
Jarred
30-40% of Zim voted for Mugabe? You have a crystal ball? That vote was rigged. Morgan has won since 2002. Alistair said it better than I could.
Alastair
Spot on for the analysis of the riggings.
The farm evictions are not so simple though. Farmers can’t afford workers anymore – employ them for 5 years and they have permanent right to live, which destroys entirely the value of the land
(then the farmer can’t even get bank finance for improvements). Agriforum has over and over again suggested proper RDP houses and villages be built for farmorkers, off the farms. They have even offered land that farmers will make available. The government, as normal, denies the problem.
Game Farms from Co-ops are also not so simple.
The protection of the Maize Board and the Wheat Board and the Co-ops was removed. Farming could now make you go bankrupt and loose your land. Game Farms and tourism do not have that risk and make a survivable income.
Monde
You will not be able to “roam the continent” AND settle down and farm. Who will grow the food for the cities?
Owen
The Swazi live in 3 countries. So do the French and the Germans. The Basque live in two – France and Spain. The Dutch also have two. The Romanies cover most of East Europe. European borders relate no more to tribe or language than African ones.
CE
“International Law” would be that refugees were taken into camps and protected with money from UN. Mbeki does not want international law. He wants only “African Solutions”. Well – he has got one!
“Legal” or “Illegal” immigant status depends on whom you bribe at Home Affairs or in the Police. Is that your idea of just status?
Ricardo
I don’t understand how your mother was in a refugee camp in SA. Our problem is that we do NOT have refugee camps. Please explain?
Willem
When Mbeki took over power – one of the first things he ordered was the removal of the electric fence and the border controls, and the commandos were made illegal. He has been heavily criticised for this by his brother, Moletsi Mbeki, who has been banned from speaking on SABC, as an analyst, for years.
Kit
I agree with most of what you say. I understand a Xhosa, a Zulu, a Venda etc etc – but who are the Shangaans?
I agree that the army should have been used to police the borders not “their own people”.
However, I know people who employ “illegals” at exactly the same wage they employ South Africans. They just can’t find enough South Africans who want to do that kind of work.
If all “past migrants” had to go back the blacks would have to migrate back to Central Africa. In SA we are all colonisers – except the browns.
@ali and Foreign
What is your point? CE = Nazi. CE supports Jarred so Jarred = Nazi?
Wow! what logic. Your intellect is beyond dispute. I am overwhelmed. If you can’t make a debate or present facts what are you trying to say? Just trying to take digs at Jarred?
I hate to agree with you Jarred-SA does not need ILLEGAL workers.A LEGAL Worker like Santana is called trade. He comes with a skill he gets paid for it he goes home and if he is good enough he can apply to stay and become one of many South africans.
I am now an australian citizen- I went through the process. I would hate to see unqualified uninvited South africans pour into my country(australia) undercut local peoples wages therefore drive their standard of living down.I would hate them to come and drive kombis or clean toilets which could be cleaned by an australian for a living wage.
I would not go as far as necklace them but would sure dob them in.
Australia puts such illegals in a detention camp-previously on an island
Dear Consulting Engineer.
About the law and order.
Are you also going to dress up in a uniform and wave a flag around with a funny symbol on it, whilst saluting and asking for more guns in private hands.
It’s what people like you do at times like these whilst the rest of us are getting down to work, including as First Aid Volunteers.
kit, you are so funny. lulz
stop speaking with logic — that has largely left the country with the skills exodus.
willem, you’re kidding right?
it’s far more about non-interfering government than about “living among white people”. trust me on this one.
if the government of, say, nigeria, treated its people with more benign neglect and less active interference in everyday affairs, there would be a lot less nigerians here.
it’s far more about the unfettered ability to make money here rather than “being around whitey”. the somali spazas are in tafelsig, not table view.
[if zimbabwe were run the same way, south africans would be swimming across the limpopo to get there, as opposed to the reverse. the real tragedy of the whole zimbabwe situation is that until the late 90s, it was zimbabwe with the better economy, overall, than south africa.]
I want to ask why was the illegal employed in the 1st place?
Is it maybe because he is willing to put in a hard day’s work for fair pay? Is it because he is not affiliated to trade unions where “Demands” are made on employers they can’t possibly meet? Is it because he is not covered by labour laws that are almost draconian against anyone wanting and willing to employ? Or is it simply because it’s nice to work with someone who is an employee who does the job he is paid to do, and not someone who thinks he should be the boss…
But I think maybe it’s just so damn much easier to employ a foreigner than a local. Locals have unreasonable demand and expectations that the foreigner don’t have.
Maybe there will be more jobs for locals if it was easier for the employer to employ his unskilled labourers.
The socialist/communist system and job reservation does not work – we have countless examples of this. In a free-market system, there will be no issues like this.
I read this article with mixed feelings first am thinking yes illegal immigrants must go for sure. I agree totally that the state is to blame for the fact that they are not doing enough to curb illegal immigrants. But killing them because they are taking your jobs away I think that is not how the problem is supposed to solved. At the end of the day you ask who owns south africa. I can assure you that I think there whole africa we are immigrants we must have moved from one place to another. I bet Jarred your ancestors were not from south africa they migrated too. This is a complex issue I am Ngoni and am a descendant of Zwide and he came from South Africa. I could well claim that I am south african. So as I say no one owns SA we are all immigrants. But because were collonized and borders were put all I can say is governments must strive to ensure that everyone lives in any part of a country legally. And South Africa must solve this problem non violently
There have been refugee settlements in South Africa before, particularly populated with Mozambican refugees in the 80s. They are not ‘camps’ in the UNHCR sense of the word but are separate settlements which grew much along the lines of the ubiquitous informal settlement but only contained refugees, therefore they were de facto refugee camps.
As far as I know, SA Shangaan people are Tsonga-speaking from mostly Limpopo/northern areas in SA but I think most Shangaan people are from other Southern African countries. I don’t know enough about tribal interaction and dialogue but there’s enough media attention on this particular issue for it to be easy enough to see what this refers to.
Is someone trying to tell me Joel Santana is more valuable to the future South Africa than a hundred qualified teachers just because he was chased by someone to come here instead of arriving all by himself?
“To the foreigners, we need to send a clear message: go home and fix up your own countries.”
Hi Jared,
I think you may have over looked the fact that the other countries are the way they are because of South Africa … You have forgotten to account for the debt incurred that is related to apartheid in many of the neighbouring countries. How about the disturbed lives of the many of their fathers when the apartheid regime raided and bombed countries in which they suspected ANC cadres were sheltered.
Countries borrowed money that they are still paying back just to help you, yes even you, enjoy the democracy you now live in.
In Zambia, we have always harboured those that come to us for refuge. Recently, we have also seen it fit to offer citizenship to those that have been here for so long (e.g. 20 years or more in the case of Angolans) that they have no place to really go back to even after their war with the South African backed Savimbi came to an end.
Refugees run away form their countries. They seldom go to a border post to casually ask for an entry visa. If South Africa has failed to think of setting up simple areas like refugee camps where they can keep those in needs then then the refugees will go around and – surprise, surprise – look for ways to earn an income.
When I was in South Africa it was at my own luxury. I chose to live there and I returned home last year when I wanted to. However, I do sympathise with those that are in SA (even illegally) because I know that deep down they would rather be back home.
Pls read http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Urgent_Action/apic_72798.html
By the way … from my recollection of experiences … those that hated foreigners simply hated foreigners. We all experienced xenophobia regardless of the legality of our status in South Africa.
Gerry
Because it is so difficult to fire someone under our labour laws, no-one will re-hire such person again. They have to have done something REALLY bad. In the USA both hiring and firing is easy. No-one cares if you were fired from your last job. They just think you had a s..t boss.
I was wondering when someone would make Simunza’s point. No one is asking foreigners if they are legal or not: they are being attacked simply for being foreigners. This little Cinman fellow seems to think everything is either/or. Indeed, there are many gradations of foreigner, and his arguments make a mockery of reality. Our entire economy relies on foreigners, from the most lowly miner to the most high-powered senior executive. Cinman’s arguments not only reek of intolerance and rightwing nationalism, but are also puerile and unworthy of the label “thought leader”.
Lyndall, Ricardo’s mother could have been at a Namibia south african refugee camp. As you recall, by the 70′s Namibia was a “de facto” south african territory, run by south africans. And these Namibia refugee camps really existed.
@Jarred
Mr, if you were in Mozambique in the 80′s and had that opinion I would call you a “guy with guts”. But as it seems that couldn’t have happened because judging on your naive thoughts you must still be so “green” (young), then I can only call you something-I-won’t-say-because-I-don’t-want-this-censured.
Respectfully,
How can Jarred Cinman write for “Thought leader” when he clearly no clear “thought” went into this post! Shame on Thoughtleader.co.za for allowing this to be published!
Jarred, Where are you going to run when there is war in South Africa? People who flee other countries do so for a reason. The reason is that most of them are starving to death every day.
Have you ever crossed Africa on foot to try and put food on your families table? I dont think so! I have met many of these people including some who crossed the Kruger park on foot and watched as there friends where eaten by lions trying to make this journey. Do you think these people do this for fun to get rich? You deserve to be ashamed of your comments in this post.
Your comments “To the foreigners, we need to send a clear message: go home and fix up your own countries.” are uninteresting and unintelligent.
Sorry thought leader but you just lost a reader!
I know this point has probably been made but I’d still like to raise it… Many of the people flooding into the country do so, fleeing for their very lives, abandoning their families back home to try and find a way to support them from here. They are leaving war-torn nations seeking refuge and a new life.
I know I’m painting this with a thick brush and it doesn’t apply to everyone, but, I still need to make the point: they are here in desperation.
Let me ask you this Jarred, how many of these people that you’re telling to just sod off back to their country, how many have you spoken to? How many car guards, security guards, people selling things at flea markets.. have you stopped and spoken to: asking about their situation; asking why they’re here? Asking where they’re from, and what home is like and what their plan is? Can you name me 10 people that you know personally? Maybe 5?
I challenge you to this – come with me one day, and just listen to some stories…
I’m sick of the simplistic and unrealistic solutions from the representatives of academia. I honestly think, with all the learning and degrees and time spent pontificating, many have become fools. And not just normal fools, cold-hearted ones. You are out of touch with the world, living in your bubble, offering solutions from your arm chair… You’re just like me when I’m a spectator at a sport, I know exactly what the ref should call, I know exactly how that player should have passed… all while I sip my coke and bite into my hot dog… That’s fine when it’s entertainment, but not when it affects the very real lives of a suffering people.
My finger is pointing at you now Jarred, saying only this: how dare you.
And you others applauding this, shame on you.
This is a dark time in our history books, and I am ashamed to be a South African. To any foreigners in South Africa who are reading this, my prayers are with you and your families, as well as the innocent locals who are caught in the middle of this mess.
Simunza
When I was at Varsity when anyone wanted to lie they said “This is information verified by The University of Pennsylvania”. It that a fake site? The information is NOT accurate. Definately schools and hospitals and civilians were not targeted. But remember the real battle was between Rhodesia and SA(seen as the free world) against Russia and Cuba(seen as the communist world). Blacks got caught up on both sides.
On one occassion Rhodesia warned the Harare zirport to keep their planes grounded as they were going to take out a “terrorist camp” by airstrike. The OAU was ALL in a hotel in Harare – and stayed indoors. They could have taken out the whole leadership of Africa in that strike by dropping a bomb on one hotel.
Jose
Thanks for info. Still Namibia is not SA.
Sorry – obviously not Harare – Maputu. Freudian slip. At present Harare = civil war in my mind!
Hmmm…
Lyndall … there is an African saying that goes “Until the lion learns to speak hunting stories will glorify the hunter”. Therefore I will not blame you for your half-sided memories of that era.
To begin with there is no way Rhodesia could have attacked Harare. There was no city known as Harare at the time. The city now known as Harare was Salisbury – the capital of Rhodesia.
I think the story you are referring to is one of an attack on Lusaka, Zambia. One of many other attacks by Rhodesia and South Africa.
You say that the attacks were not on civilians. Who do you think lived in Makeni, Lusaka? There is no military base in Makeni. There has never ever been one. What about the raids on Swaziland?
The informatioon I gave you is common knowledge – the Uni Penn site is just one link to it
Simunza
Never quote me a website as a reference. There is too much money behind vested interests posting on the net.
Of course I don’t “remember” it! I was not in the military, and there was a blanket on media coverage.
My sources are the books “When a Crocodile Ate the Sun” and “The Great Betrayal”.
And yes, I might have got the city wrong. These were library books. I can’t afford to buy all the books I would like to.
@Lyndall
The Johannesburg and Sandton libraries have a good collection of history books written by Africans who experienced the other side of liberation history.
I can’t vouch for the lack of vested interest though …
Simunza
I live in Harkerville – near Knysna and Plett!