Having read the interesting deviations that all of you have taken this thread along, it fills me with trepidation to enter at such a late stage when so much has been said, so I will try not to repeat what others have overdone.

The two questions that led to this all, namely ‘Does GOD exist?, and is the Bible true?, lead this whole argument down the road from a distinctly Atheistic point of view.

It seems to me that it is almost impossible for a religious person to fight the first question because as soon as you enter the fray you are immediately taking the opposing view to something that in your view does not exist! The definition of a person who is religious, is someone who BELIEVES that GOD exists. NOT a person who knows that GOD exists! By entering this argument it is like the well known saying ‘by arguing with a fool, you become one’.

So I am not going to try and enter into the foolishness of arguing the point of whether GOD exists, because my own personal view is simply that. It is not your view and I don’t want to make my view yours! No one person can convince another that GOD exists, because by using standard HUMAN terms of reference you can only prove what you know, not what you believe.

Entering into an argument over whether the bible is true is another thing entirely, and THAT can take you down many paths of foolishness. Many secular divisions exist within each and every religious sect which already shows the deep and divisive BELIEFS that show how many people have a view on whether the bible is true AND how much of it is simply a story.

Does the view that the bible IS true add any value to the argument at all? I don’t think so, because the bibles value comes in it’s moral direction (enter the fray to attack it’s inconsistencies here!) Nevertheless looking at the opposing view, does the view that the bible is not true add any value? I don’t think so, because if you didn’t think it was true does this then mean that the people who use it reduce the value? no – effectively for the same reasons!

During this whole discourse everyone except Jarred have confused religion and THE CHURCH. Do you suddenly become a bad Christian / Muslim / Jew if you don’t go to Church / Mosque / Shul? The answer lies in the point of view of the priest /Imam/Rabbi who will be secretly disappointed that you haven’t added to the coffers but does *GOD* care if you don’t go to church? If he exists in the form and benevolency that THE CHURCH says he does then surely not. Surely someone has noted that through the thousands of years that People in the name of GOD (through the church certainly in the Christian scheme of things) have committed atrocities. It was not following GOD’s WAY that made them do this. It was rather their interpretation or their (church).

The next burning question that was not covered, is the statement that atheists are just plain right. Why? How can you ever prove that with logic when you are mixing belief with fact? An atheist says ‘GOD does not exist, prove to me that GOD exists’. A religious person says ‘I believe GOD exists’

Please dear DOG (sic) how can you BOTH argue and not tell me at least one of you is confused? You are not on the same subject guys?!!

Have a good weekend all and sundry in whichever churches, synagogues, mosques — or free from such things — you plan to spend it.

As he continued walking alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes. Turning to look, he saw a 7 foot grizzly charging towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. Looking over his shoulder he saw that the bear was closing in on him. His heart was pumping frantically as he tried to run even faster.

Alas, he tripped and fell to the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up only to see the bear raising it’s paw to strike him dead. At that instant the atheist cried out: “Oh my God…”

Time stopped.

The bear froze.

The forest fell silent.

It was then that a bright light shone down upon the man and a voice came out of the sky saying: “You deny my existence for all of these years, teach others that I don’t exist, and even credit creation to a cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer? The atheist looked directly into the light and spoke “It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps, could you make the BEAR a Christian?”

“Very well,” said the voice.

The light went out.

And the sounds of the forest resumed.

Then the bear lowered his paw, bowed his head and spoke: “Lord, bless this food which I am about to receive and for which I am truly thankful. Amen.”

Finally … a bit of humour

Ariel, I’m sure it comes as no surprise to anyone here that you’ve never heard of a non sequitur (that’s mean, I know, sorry, couldn’t resist).