Zim is certainly the Sareavo joke - kill one - you go to prison, kill 20 - you go to the luny bin, kill thousands and you get a government of national unity.

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Mr Moyo
If your analysis was not biased, you could have saluted Mugabe and ZANU-PF for one aspect, yes they knew that Cde Mugabe was going to win, but Tsvangirai is so indicisive that ZANU-PF could not know with any certainity that he would re consider his decision and contest.
And this is the guy the world wants to see leading Zimbabwe!
I understand he is out of that Dutch embassy, his life is now safe, now that Mugabe is the president, and its surprising that whoever advises him has told him that conditions are now back to normal hardly four days after the purported violent elections.
And Bheki, Mugabe still can go to the UN because even the USA president does not have ‘any clean finger’ to point at Mugabe! Dont even mention Britain.
The US of America can sanction Zimbabwe because it has the economic muscle, but they failed to cripple the Mugabe regime, 8 years and counting since the Zimbabwe Economy and Recovery Act of 2001 was signed into law. I await their next move which will only manage to make the Zimbabwean masses suffer more than those who the purported ‘focused’ ssanctions are meant for.
Tsvangirai does not have the interest of the people of zimbabwe at heart, Biti is just there to show how disorganised the MDC is.
when Biti says something different from what his party president said, it is just evidence of lack of consultation within the MDC as a party that wants to present itself as an alternative to ZANU-PF. When the spokes person of one of the MDC factions attends the swearing in of Mr Mugabe without the blessings of his party/faction it is evidence of deep divisions within the MDC.
I still maintain that MDC has much to do to put its house in order before some of us can be fooled into believing it can redeem Zimbabwe from the mess the country is in.
And Mr Moyo, its not luck that Mwanawasa was rushed to hospital. Thats is going to be a bad omen for Zambia, trust me, the divisions in the politics of Zambia are about to re-surface. God willing, he will feel better soon.
Mr Skelemani, the minister of foreign affairs in Botswana has stated that though they have misgivings about the June 27 elections in Zimbabwe, Botswana has much in common with Zimbabwe, than distant nations that can easily cut ties with Zimbabwe, to cut ties with Zimbabwe.
This in simple langusge means Botswana has taken a stand to continue working with the elected government of Zimbabwe as has been the case all along.
Oops, Mr Moyo I dont think I am crazy but we ll have to live with the fact that Mr Mugabe is the President of Zimbabwe for some time to come.

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Bhekinkosi Moyo in Zimbabwe it is not possible for Tsvangirai to hide in any of his supporter’s homes. Anyone who tries to hide Tsvangirai will get it more than Tsvangirai himself. If you dont know this i think you don’t quite know what’s happening inside Zim.

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I find it strange why all pro-MDC commentators are lavishing praise on Morgan Tsvangarai for withdrawing from the elections. If he had participated and lost, we would all have found the results illegitimate because of the patent unfairness of the election process, and would have demanded that proper elections be held or an inclusive transitional government be formed. If he had participated, there was still a chance that his combination with 2nd MDC and some Mukoni supporters would have led to Mugabe’s defeat. At the most minimum, the election would have been an indicator of the apathy against Zanu-PF. What argument can he now enlist to find legitimacy against the callous monster that Mugabe is? How does he now justify being the leading figure of any transitional government?

The problem with Tsvangarai is that he banks too much on international support, particularly support from the West. He ought to have known that condemnations from the USA, EU and UN, of the Mugabe regime, would not be followed by any meaningful intervention. Indeed the only person who has been prepared to muddy his reputation, one way or the other, with the complexities of Zimbabwe, Pres Thabo Mbeki, was condemned by the MDC and Tsvangarai, in particular. The sad reality of Zimbabwe is that the Zimbabweans have been failed by their leadership.

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A few little things to consider:

1)”Why did he run to hide in the Dutch embassy, for fuck’s sake? Could he not hide in any of his people’s homes?…If this was not safe enough, why did you not run and hide in any of the African embassies?” - Are you seriuous? I thought it was obvious that the majority of African countries silently , inexplicably endorse Mugabe and his lunacy. South Africa certainly does. Why then would MT be stupid enough to hide in any of their embassies when they could quite simply hand him over? He was not, thankfully, that stupid. He cleverly hid in an EU embassy knowing they openly support his cause and would protect him at great cost should Mugabe and his thugs be stupid enough to storm the place, thereby defacto declaring war on Holland.

The fact that you see this as an insult probably explains, in parallel to your own, the juvenile and idiotically two-faced stance of African countries on this issue: they will forgive Mugabe anything as long as he is giving the West the finger. “Kill them all for all we care Robert, but show those western countries baying for human rights who is the real boss out here!” Spare us from the petty pride and identity issues here. The man is a thug and a dictator who just happens to be a black African liberation leader and not a black African liberation leader that happens to be a thug and a dictator! For the future of the continent and as a thought leader, please see him and treat him as such. Tutu does and at last Zuma does too.

2)”I must say that as an African I did not like the way the white journalist approached Mugabe — an elder, for that matter.”

Could you please explain why Mugabe deserves any respect whatsoever from anybody? As an elder, the raving f*&kwit should actually know better. We respect elders for their wisdom and their experience. He should not be in a position where young journalists (is the colour here really an issue for you?) are able to ask him questions that make him lose his temper. Yet, according to you, he deserves respect? He deserves nothing but the humiliation of the international courts. Respect is earned in the modern world, not given to murderers and genocidal maniacs just because they happen also to be octogenarians.

In fact, if nobody showed him any respect, perhaps the deranged maniac would possibly start getting the point. Too much respect caused the problem in the first place.

“I think he was disrespectful and patronising. He could have still asked the same questions in a more dignified manner. He might have had the right questions but he was condescending.”

Why on earth should Mugabe be allowed to speak the way he does about Blair and the West in a completely condescending, inflammatory and undignified manner and then expect to be treated with respect by representatives of their media? The West could squash him like a ripe, squeaking grape underfoot should they desire to do so. Respect is surely a two way street? Mugabe does not show respect to the West, the real reason African leaders love him so much, and kudos to Julian for showing the Hitleresque megalomaniac the outward and public contempt he deserves. In a single stroke he has done what Mbeki and a whole bunch of African sycophants do not have the balls to do in public. Good for him and may others follow his example.

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Why on earth should ANYBODY approach Mugabe with respect, let alone a white man from England? That idiot Mugabe can’t open his mouth without insulting the UK so fuck him.

Here is the truth for Zimbabwe now - they are in the last throes of media limelight, and very soon nobody will cover the situation there, their economy is blown so they will not have any muscle in Africa anymore either.

That’s what you end up with when you respect self-serving fools like Mugabe.

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@ Grant W

I just wish the west would “squash him like a ripe. squeaking grape underfoot”.

It would do many in Africa no harm to be reminded that the west has more than just words and sanctions at its’ disposal. Its the knowledge that they will not use them for fear of that much overrated threat, being called a racist, that allows crimes against humanity to go unchecked.

In my hierarchy of wrongful deeds genocide, murder and torture still shade alleged racial prejudice.

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“Why did he run to hide in the Dutch embassy, for fuck’s sake? Could he not hide in any of his people’s homes? His supporters would have gladly protected him and that would have earned him more respect.”

I imagine that he felt the Dutch Embassy - being actual Dutch Soil - would be far safer than either the homes of his followers (which would lead to violence, bloodshed and the rounding up of Tsvangirai) or the African Embassies - given the track record of SADC in “not criticizing” Mugabe I can very easily see them denying him asylum.

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“I must say that as an African I did not like the way the white journalist approached Mugabe — an elder, for that matter. I think he was disrespectful and patronising.”

It is not the role of a journalist to be respectful, it is the role of a journalist to be incisive and to attempt, whatever the “prestige” of the subject, to arrive at accuracy.

It seems to me that this automatic and demanded respect (a) harkens back to a class system where some are “better” than others and (b)at the root of many of Africa’s problems - automatically giving some respect simply because of their age and not because of their policies or actions seems to me to be not only absurd, but the very antithesis of democracy.

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African leaders are not clean, only President Bush and Tony Blair, Brown are clean!

Men, what have we become as blacks! childish, non thinking fools???

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I’m ecstatic by the fact that Mr. Tsvangarai withdrew himself as the presidential candidate, besides the fact that most of the western countries were behind him, he knew that “Black Hitler” would have made sure that Zimbabwe become the war zone completely. At least the puppet master is officially the President so lets watch while Zimbabwe extinct out of Africa!

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@Bilal - Uncle Bob is not a president, he is a murderer. I trust that you are living in Harare so that we can see that you put your money where your mouth is.

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Mr. Moyo:

I’m black American and I fully support President Mugabe on the land reform program in Zimbabwe. Sure mistakes were made in the management and organization of the program; however, this does not negate the fact that land reform needed to happen. It was morally wrong that whites who comprised less than 1% of the population of Zimbabwe owned more than 75% of arable land. The WEST is trying to effect illegal regime change by putting in the Mr. Tsvangirai as president of Zimbabwe. Everything one reads in Western newspapers defame President Mugabe because he had the courage to do the right thing by taking back the land.
I think its ridicoulous that South Africa had not made any progress toward redistributing the land since the ANC has been in power. Africans can no longer allow colonial settlers to own huge tracts of land while Africans live in poverty. You want find black people owning huge tracts of land here in America or in European countries.
South Africa has instituted the BEE program to address the lack of black participation in the economy; however, this is benefiting only a few well connected blacks. The majority of black south africans live in poverty and this is because they don’t own the land. It’s morally wrong that 8% of the population of South Africa own 87% of the land. If South Africa does not institute land reform soon, I feel that the black poor will rise up and rebel against the power structure. The true owners of the land in Africa is black Africans; it was a gift from God. Southern Africa will never enjoy peace until black Africans own their land; consequently, Namibia and South Africa must do more to ensure the black majority reposses their land.
Thanks so much. Black American in New Orleans. I want to visit South Africa but I want it to owned by black Africans.

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The world is devoid of a few good men. An opportunity to shoot him down wasted!
Pity there is no oil in Zim!

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@Bilal - the BIG difference between the USA and the UK is that their leaders don’t kill their own people. Bob kills Shona people - has he no pride in who he is?

But keep him there as in about 5 years he will have killed most of his people off and then us white okes can get some free uninhabited farm land. Just a pity we won’t have any dark dudes to do the manual labour.

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Well said Grant W and Craig. Many South Africans were exiled in Western countries during apartheid! So why did they not seek refuge in African countries? Reading anything beyond fleeing for his life, into Tsvangurai’s actions, is surely overkill

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I physically shudder at some things I read.

It seems that one may be responsible for the deaths, directly and indirectly, of thousands, yet alleged African Thought Leaders are miffed at the supposed lack of respect in how questions are phrased!

Spare me.

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Which African embassy should Morgan run to, seeing Africa has supported Bob right up to now an dthey ar eprobably all guarded by Bob’s armed Goons to stop such a possibility? Don’t forget that many many ANC people sort refuge for many many years in ‘White’ England, Europe, Russia, East Germany etc etc so why is it bad now?

The only way the MDC can take on Bob properly is to set up armed resistence camps in the neigbouring countries. Would you support such resistence camps in SA, no matter our Government would not? So the MDC only has Gandhi like peaceful resistence to offer against Bob’s blatent murdering because that is all his African brothers will allow.

We should all hang our heads in shame.

Brent

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@Todd Kidd (again) - it’s also morally wrong to sit in New Orleans and cast judgement on the situation in Southern Africa. How exactly will dividing up the arrable land based on demographics solve the problem of a huge unemployed and uneducated group of people? I honestly want to know why you believe this is a solution. Are you saying that we must force a whole lot of people to become farmers, or do you advocate just giving them the land irrespective of what they intend to do with it?

By the same logic, since the USA is only 6.5% of the world land mass, I would challenge your government to emit only 6.5% of the world’s carbon instead of the impressive 22% it currently does.

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Tsvangirai clearly failed to show good leadership qualities, judgement and maturity by dithering around when he was supposed to unite the two MDC factions before the March 29 poll. Surely that would have guaranteed him a clear majority in the presidential poll and a much better performance for his party in the parliamentary poll. The man is just a hostage of his over-inflated ego and a victim of poor advice. Something tells me he really is not very different from Mugabe. Both of them should just have sex and walk away!

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Todd Kidd

What will the blacks do with the land when they have it? Commercial farming ? How? - the ANC has trained no black farmers, and has allocated almost no money in the budget to either buy farmland or support farmers.

You have posted this same post before.

SA’s black government has just sold off parastatal land for billions and billions and billions - to Arabs. That money could buy 10% of the farmland in SA - but it won’t be used for that.

Who is going to feed the cities? Or do we become the normal African failed state living on aid?

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Todd Kidd in NO, Magabe did not institute land reform to give it back to the ‘landless’. I was in Zim in 2000 when the so called land reform started and was shown a glossy brochure put out by the Dept of Agriculture in 1999 as it’s 5 year plan. In not one chapter, one page or even one line was land reform mentioned. Suddenly a few months after is publication ‘land reform’ started, the catalyst is that Magabe lost a vote for the 1st time in his rule and very soon after that the ‘land reform’ started.

The people who have received land are Bob’s cronies and the high and mighty not the ordinary person on the ground, do yourself a favour and go to Zim and see for yourself.

The West is not pushing Morgan on to Zim the poor suffering peole are, that is the simple plain truth - go there and speak to all.

Brent

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Todd Kidd - I agree that Zimbabwe needed land reform and so does South Africa, and I am a white American who spent six months in South Africa. The history of the land ownership in both places is beyond debate a history of white conquest, essentially white settlers having taken the land at gunpoint. Initially in 2000 I supported the land reform in Zimbabwe even though I thought the loss of farmers’ lives was regrettable. However, Mugabe and ZANU have totally corrupted this process, the land goes to Mugabe’s cronies and not to black people who need the land. You also need to consider that white farmers fed Zimbabwe and all of southern Africa so before initiating the land reform Mugabe and ZANU government should have started an education program to ensure that blacks could take over from the white farmers. In fact the World Bank recommended this, their programs leave a lot to be desired, but I believe that advice was correct. To Moyo - I don’t know what that reported you refer to said to Mugabe and I admire Africans’ respect for age and elders, but Mugabe needs a good punch in the face, and that’s just for starters. His ZANU thugs have spared no one, including old people, black and white, in Zimbabwe.

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@Todd Kid-
“I want to visit South Africa but I want it to owned by black Africans.”
You’re certainly one crazy ‘toddling son of a racist kid’ and highly privileged to get your blatant racist diatribe published. That is unfortunately the kind of support you can depend on at lame forum control like these while the vomit you purge, is enough to instigate a war.
So much for any effort to try and resolve matters. You’ve spoken, at least you’re honest.

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There is a fascinating battle developing in Africa:

DICTATORS v DEMOCRATS

Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Senekal and Botswana have said they will not recognise Mugabe as President of Zimbabwe and have called on the AU and SADEC to exclude Mugabe from future meetings. I suspect that Kenya will join them - I doubt Odinga was impressed with Mugabe’s comments about him. Also Levy when he recovers.

Morgan is a brave and clever man.He has not made a single mistake.

He could not have gone to the house of friends - he and they would have been killed. He could not go to USA, British or French Embassies - so he went to the Dutch. The best choice of all. The only colony Holland was involved in was SA.

Mugabe did not run to other people? PLEASE! His whole funding for his terror campaign came from the West, who also gave his wife asylum, and military training for his thugs came from the Communist States. During the cold war BOTH the USA AND the Russians, Chinese and Cubans funded dictators. If they had NOT interfered the original transitional government prior to 1980 might have worked.

Zimbabwe is paying the price for the Kenyan mistake. Kibaki was voted out - rigged it, made himself President, and Odinga (who had won) was forced into a government with the party the people had voted OUT! So now any dictator who looses an election can keep power by “making the country ungovernable”. (WHERE have I heard that before?)

Any bets on the outcome?

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B Moyo

I don’t know whether you don’t get it- We’ve been calling the one with moustache “MAD BOB”, doesn’t that clarifies the question you (are)asking about who the real ‘crazy’ person is?

Crazy that he would say when he beats civilians to draw ‘x’ sign next to his head:

“I feel very fit, optimistic, upbeat and hungry”…and ending up the BS process with such an insult to the Man above “ God help me”

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@todd Kidd - while I agree with you that indegenous africans should own the bulk of the land, one cannot do it by default as Uncle Bob did it.

A leader must be able to feed his nation. Bob had 20 years to train black commercial farmers BUT he did nothing. Then he took farm land and gave it to his mates, many of them have let the land revert back to bush.

His people now starve and vote against him or live in ‘white farming countries’ like SA, Australia, etc.

In SA I have farmer firiends who have land claims against their farms. They are waiting to sell and move and have been for the past 8 years. The government has not even offered them a price. (Note the government effectively can use white tax payers money to buy farms and give them to blacks.) These farmers cannot get loans from the bank as the farm is not security so they are slowly letting the farms deteriorate.

Did you know that in Mozambique there are no dairy and poltry farms. All milk and eggs are imported from white SA farmers.

One cannot take white farm land and give it to peasant black farmers and expect to feed the nation.

The French did it in their revoltuion, within 50 years a new land owner elite had emerged and the peasants were back living in the ghettos.

Did you know that Bob is now very quietly leasing farm land back to white farmers?

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Todd Kidd.

‘I want to visit South Africa but I want it to owned by black Africans.’

Don’t visit us then, come and join us. Spend some of those ‘well earned’ American dollars on arable land, bought at market price (cheap by USA standards) from a ‘whitey’ farmer, so that you too can redress the ‘balance.’
Oh, sorry - but you have never farmed before - that doesn’t matter!!

‘Black African’ my foot. If I lived in the USA (not that I ever would) I would regard myself as more ‘African’ than you, even though I am white. At least I am here, trying to make some difference and not just pontificating from afar.

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Dude? firstly what the hell do you get paid for? Do you make a meaningful contribution to society of any sort, you know like work? Do you make a difference to anything?

I mean: ‘invited to a meeting that I am organising at the University of Barcelona under the auspices of TrustAfrica and the International Society for Third Sector Research to discuss the state of philanthropy and its role in development in Africa’ WTF! ‘TrustAfrica’ - thats an oxymoron you idiot!

Also your goddamn respectful cultural attitude is making an ass out of you and your fellow africans! I watched a show on Darfur aired on the Beeb last nite and the way these people tip toe around the issues is insane, insane!

There is never going to be an answer to Zim or Darfur or Eritrea etc etc, until someone does something. I suspect however that nothing the black man will ever do is going to amount to much, there’s too much cultural baggage.. Do you have 100 years? should the people suffering wait 100 years.. How exactly is a solution going to emerge in even 5 years. Consider how much progress the past 5 have made - nil I might say..

And yes the west will have to clean up.. again! Unless the Chinese get their first. Oh wait..

respect? mr dumbass monkeyface president, phhhffft!

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@ todd Kidd

Todd, if you insist on keep returning to the same old defense of Mugabe, at least try and be factually correct, or to be more precise, extract the relevant facts.

We have already discussed previously, and at length, the myth that land is the real issue at hand, so there is no point in repeating it, you would obviously rather remain ignorant on that score.

If you are going to discuss land distribution, you cannot single out arable land, because if you do it becomes a circular argument. At the time Rhodesia was colonised there was no arable land. The arable land was bush that was turned into arable land by the whites, so of course they would have the majority of the land. You need to focus on what percentage of the total land the white minority had. (Zimbabwe has PLENTY to spare, just not all nicely tilled and commercialised by the whites)

Next you need to recognise that the population of Rhodesia was circa 100,000 at the time of colonisation, so 10m blacks have not been disposessed of land, because 9.9m never had any in the first place.

This will still leave you with a very unequal distribution of land, along racial lines, and my point is not to make any judgment, but to simply ask you to do your maths correctly, if you are going to use that maths as justification for Mugabe decimating a country (which i don’t really need to make judgment on, most of the world has already done it).

If you have the stomach to do the calculations and arrive at a true and meaningful answer, you may wish to compare this with land distribution in other countries.

It may interest you that in the UK 10% of the population own 90% of the land. You may want to see how the states fare, or other countries. If you keep an open mind, you will realise that unequal land distribution it a natural phenomenon the world over, and is actually about wealth (and in the past class, which went hand in hand with it), not race.

This could lead you to the assumption that actually it is wealth, or the inequality of it, that is the true issue.

Then todd, you could focus on poverty alleviation and wealth creation, which would both help the poor (as opposed to Mugabe’s devastation of their living standards), and at the same time, would even out land ownership, since if all races had the same wealth, they would end up with the same amount of land.

Alas, you would rather just perpetuate you misguided ignorance that this is a land issue and Mugabe was right all along!! Are the millions starving, dying, and crying out for it to stop not in the least inconvenient for your theory? I bet you ate 3 square meals today?

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The truth of the matter is that the election was already in dispute. Look at the state media’s statistics of violence against ZANU PF supporters? Had ZANU PF lost the election it was going to cry foul and declare the election neither free nor fair? They certainly had in their view a strong case for that.

Tsvangirai was skating on thin ice. It was a case initially of getting Tsvangirai into a “government of national unity” (africa’s modern curse). How? By violence against him and his supporters, the general populace, and certainly this was one of the tactics the likes of Simba Makoni fell for. Then if he did come to the negotiating table and continued with his quest for State House the next thing would be a state of emergency declaration as called for by ZANU PF lawyers and ZANU PF “victims” of political violence. I put “victims” in quotes to highlight the internicine nature of the violence within ZANU PF which Joyce Mujuru herself alluded to when, she addressing a ZANU PF rally did not accuse the MDC of the violence like Mugabe. Instead she said some people were using the cover of inter party violence to settle political scores. It is no secret that those people of the whispering campaign in ZANU PF fashion have to be dealt with. That also means moderates within the party. It is going to be interesting how Mugabe will do his punishing and cleansing in such a tight situation.

Another thing more than 20 MDC elected representatives have had criminal charges brought against them by the police since March 29 if you listen to state media. Will we see a reduction of MDC MPs in Parliament?

Mugabe happens to be a cunning but unwise African leader. But a lavish inauguration within an hour of the announcement beats everything. Did you see the polling officer I mean the guy who works at the cattle dip and the vendors acting as the polling officers. Trained where? Ask those who went to the polling stations the joke that the whole charade was.

Heard this joke on why the March 29 results took so long. They say when Robert was told that he had lost he did not believe and insisted on doing the counting himself.

How about this one, the ones with the ink going to buy subsidised mealie meal after the vote at certain houses in Bulawayo.

What about the insults and comments on the spoilt ballots which from the numbers Mugabe seems to have kept as his votes. How did he push the numbers up? Is it that hard, every one who ever joined the uniformed forces, appeared on the payroll dead or alive, in Zimbabwe or abroad voted for Robert Mugabe.

Mugabe was a liability to land reform from 1980s when land came up for the Government’s first option of purchase. He was in London every month when he was still the most airborne Prime Minister then President. Doing what if not pressing the British for money to buy farms? Hobnobbing with the royalty off course and one of the largest beneficial landowners at that time and Mugabe propagandist Tiny Rowland. During the Cold War the British would have done everything to keep him in the Friends of the West or Capitalism’s side even though he was a clever fence sitter getting lots of donor funds from both sides. If indeed the land was what he went to the bush for that says a lot about his memory and priorities.

His is a case of since I cannot prove myself a lover so must I prove myself a villain.

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Tsvangirai is not serious, for him to be President. The West wanttp control puppets, and then sit back and see us fight against each other. William Lynch in 1712, said pitch the old black male against the young black male and let them distrust each other and only trust us and love us. This was a slave owner talking. Let me give you a picture in Zimbabwe in 1995, half of the events that was going on in the farms, was unacceptable in an independent country. The reconciliation was being taken full advantage of by the white farmers. Water rights were not extended to black farmers and at tiem rivers were blocked to stop black farmers from accessing water. Seeds and fertilizer was sold in accordance to such. Even today as we are facing sanctions, if only the West were democratic, we would be talking a different langauge. Zimbabwe will never fail. The creativity and the hard working Zimbabwean. Here is a Zimbabwean lesson.

Built consistently throughout the period from the 11th century to the 15th century[1], the ruins at Great Zimbabwe are some of the oldest and largest structures located in Southern Africa. At its peak, estimates are that the ruins of Great Zimbabwe had as many as 18,000 inhabitants. The ruins that survive are built entirely of stone. The ruins span 1,800 acres (7 km²) and cover a radius of 100 to 200 miles (160 to 320 km).

In 1531, Viçente Pegado, Captain of the Portuguese Garrison of Sofala, described Zimbabwe thus:

“ Among the gold mines of the inland plains between the Limpopo and Zambezi rivers there is a fortress built of stones of marvelous size, and there appears to be no mortar joining them…. This edifice is almost surrounded by hills, upon which are others resembling it in the fashioning of stone and the absence of mortar, and one of them is a tower more than 12 fathoms [22 m] high. The natives of the country call these edifices Symbaoe, which according to their language signifies court. ”

The conical tower inside the Great Enclosure at Great ZimbabweThe ruins can be broken down into three distinct architectural groups. They are known as the Hill Complex, the Valley Complex and the famous Great Enclosure. Over 300 structures have been found so far in the Great Enclosure. The type of stone structures found on the site give an indication of the status of the citizenry. Structures that were more elaborate were probably built for the kings and situated further away from the center of the city. It is thought that this was done in order to escape sleeping sickness.

What little evidence exists suggests that Great Zimbabwe also became a center for trading, with artifacts suggesting that the city formed part of a trade network extending as far as China. Chinese pottery shards, coins from Arabia, glass beads and other non-local items have been excavated at Zimbabwe.

Nobody knows for sure why the site was eventually abandoned. Perhaps it was due to drought, perhaps due to disease or it simply could be that the decline in the gold trade forced the people who inhabited Great Zimbabwe to look for greener pastures.

So Zimbabwe is not a new development and very little was brought into the country from Europe, but more was taken out. So with the hard working Zimbabweans, all we need to do is close ranks and look inward and forget about the rest of Europe and their cousins who are within Africa. All we need is one or two good rainy season and lets hear the West talk after that.

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@Todd Kid: Well since we are unscrambling the egg of the last couple of hundred years or so, why don’t you black American guys get on a boat and come on home. Its morally wrong that you are living in America after you were stolen from Africa. You belong here on the land. Sell your ipods and Nikes and come home please.

In addition, I am sure you will agree in corollary to your theory that it is morally wrong that white Americans reside in America and all that land should be returned to the scattered kin of the indigenous populace that they wiped out so long ago.

Aint gonna happen is it? Yet you sit there and pontificate on real but complex daily issues here where the lives of people hang in the balance with your fried-chicken-from-a-bucket racist logic.

Hell, applying your historical land ownership issues, all black Africans in Southern Africa should bugger off up North and leave the land for the San. That’s when I recommend you take your holiday….from the Ivory Coast or wherever you think you actually come from, after the mass repatriation and migration all across the globe to put things right to some date when it was all ther way it was supposed to be. Do you seriously think this is a solution or is it just convenient to push it on us because we have the reputation. Think it through buddy, think it through.

In supporting Mugabe because you think, in your warped and misguided fashion, that Africa should quaintly return to its state of rural subsistence where people scrape a living from the land and disease is rampant, you are condemning a generation to starvation because the maniac you support kills people. Thats right. He and his followers are mass murderers, rapists and torturers. Mugabe is not a mismanaging land reforming hero…that was just a cheap voting trick, playing on the retarded sentiments of poorly informed people just like you. You openly support a Hitler, a Stalin, an Amin of our era simply because he is your colour. Congratulations. How do you sleep at night?

Greg Berchenko: Spare us the children’s bedtime morality fables. Oooh, the evil white guys taking land at gunpoint. Well is that not how things were done everywhere in the 17th century and beyond? In fact, how the hell did your ancestors take the land in America? By gunpoint buddy, gunpoint. So lets all give it back then…you first. Find a nice descendant of the local tribe that your forefathers did not murder when they were committing genocide on a massive scale and give them your house. I assume you agree that it is the right thing to do. And while we are waiting for you to sign the papers, perhaps you need to take a moment to reflect on your own nation’s failings of morality (the list is loooong) before you point your stubby, thieving, genocidal, planet befouling, war-mongering, stars and stripes fingers down south.

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you are so rite, the whole Zim its a joke, why did they vote when they knew there was no opposition.85% won by Zanu-PF, who took the other 15%?Go on and blame my math.Come on guys, so you mean no one is GOING TO raise a finger?so we are all dirty….. Thanks God i dont belong to this ‘planet of the apes’, guess u know the movie.

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This Moyo guy sounds like soft-minded.Could be deputy to George Charamba,me thinks.If you do know what you write about,you would know why Tsvangirai sought refugee at the Dutch Embassy instead of American or British.(I will live this for you to figure out).I think your confusion is on whether you support Mugabe or hate Tsvangirai.Well,the answer is both.
Mugabe is demented,probably has early signs of Alzheimer’s disease.He only used to kill Ndebeles,this Moyo guy should know better.And what’s all this,every time he opens his mouth,it’s either Brown this,Bush this and America that.the dude has lost his marbles.
The intelligent individual will not base his conduct on an arbitrary or absolute concept of right and wrong. It may be argued that all motives and all actions are selfish since they are intended to satisfy some requirement of the ego.
Perhaps this is true of self-sacrifice, abnegation and the highest altruism. We engage in them in order to satisfy ourselves by attaining some object however intangible it may be.

Since all tyrannies are based on dogma and since all dogmas are based on lies, it behooves us to look beyond them for truth and freedom will both be far away. And yet the Truth is that we know nothing…
I think Mr Moyo you should just shut up mate.

Evans (umzilakawulandelwa)

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@Owen
You say the ‘big difference between USA, UK and Zimbabwe is that the former do not kill their own people but Mugabe kills his own!
How wrong you are.
1. 4000+ American soldiers and still counting, have been killed in Iraq. A war that should not have taken place in the first place and illegal.these soldiers died in vain, they are American and their deaths are a result of lies by Bush and Tony Blair
2. So you are happy that atleast they [Bush, Blair and later Brown] are in Iraq killing innocent civilians, who are not their own people.

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Was it a clever move or cowardice becoz presently Mugabe legitimately rules Zimbabwe regardless of wat the world is saying as evidenced by our toothless AU precicely put tsvangirai costed us victory and redemption.the problem wit tsvangirai is that he thinks MDC its his personal organization that he runs without consulting the people in the groud who have victims and sacrificed for both the country and Zimbabwe.the events leading to the runoff were nothing new to what we witnessed on the march 29 elections.Bheki I will refer u to one of statements in earlier papers, What is the role of elections in Africa,mina personally I think they r useless for the simple reasons that everyone know,Kenya had them ,Egypt never hadthem for past 30 years and yes the president is busy arresting members of the Brotherhood(the opposition in Egypt) and Zimbabwe,bantu ses’zwile.The problem in Zimbabwe is deeper than politics,we don’t have a leader in either tsvangirai or Mugabe .The problem in zimbabwe is a lack of political leadership .Mugabe led us to canaan and like moses his time ended but he chose to oppose God’s will and continued.On George Charamba’s statement I think he shld say it again.Comrades and friends I think its high time Africa learns to solves its own problems and control its continent.For far too long the west has been dictating terms for us and controlling our resources.Africa shld assert its position in the world and start doing things the African way,I min look we have oil but petrol prices kip going up weekly.its something we cannot control as Africa becoz of our strategic position in the world political economy.its shame that theAU and its minor organisatiions like SADC are not bold eough to call the shots and run the continentbut spelling out was wrong and restraining a brother if he is out of order.it starts there,fixing your house first and then fight the enemy.Tsvangirai does not know wat he really ants on actual fact Jongwe the late was supposed to be the president as for Mr. Biti its unfortunate that he is in a war with an informed commander.Tsvangirai kips changing colours like a python,i think its high time he knows that when people support you its not like they agree with all that you say.The African problem is that the people are left outside every process that concerns their lives.Mark my words Tsvangirai with the way he is going he will not lead Zimbabwe.Remember how Joshua Nkomo was reduced to nothing after a unity GVT was formed.Mugabe has been in this game for a long time and needs someone who is principled and bold not Tsvangirai,usakhasela eziko mfowethu.At the end of the day Africa belongs to Africans and our leaders should know that

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It amazes me that so may of you have a lot to say about Zim and democracy and how bad Mugabe is blah blah blah. I have a question to all af you When Mugabe was killing people in the ‘80 did any of you really care about Zim? Dont blame people for thinking this whole Zim thing is not racist, look at it this way Mugabe has been a murderer from the time he was Prime Minister but not even one western government complained but the moment he started on the farms all hell broke loose because the farms where owned by white people. Kenya is another good example when Kibaki stole the elections the USA where the 1st to sing goverment of national unity with the same guy who cheated as president so whats the difference to the situation of Mad Bob

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Jay-sus Mr Moyo
Wot a lot of blather - though you and your ilk are likely most suited to a Barcelona - work shop - Trust Africa - typical have another lengthy chat on African issues. While so little changes on the ground - poverty, disease and ignorance - that seems to be Africa’s inheritance.

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Todd Kidd

All American Immigrants, including the black ones, live in this fantasy that they have two nationalities.You may be of African descent but you are not African - you are American. If you want a say in Africa - then give up your American passport and come back to Africa. This is typical American arrogance. You have probably never been here, do not bother to read the facts when presented to you, and insist dogmatically on sticking to your prejidices. Your arrogance and your ignorance shows how American you are!

The white South African Government turned over a rich country with a vast amount of state land to the ANC. They were also supposed to use taxes to buy farms for blacks. They sold state land to pals and developers, probably for kickbacks, gave the rural land to chiefs - it all now lies fallow, and established more bantustans with land claims.

Bilal

I recon Levy getting sick was the best thing that happened. His deputy turned thw whole thing into a farce. Now Africa is splitting - about time.

American soldiers are not being killed by Americans in Iraq,so they are not “killing their own” like Mugabe is. Nor are civilians being killed by Americans, but by brainwashed fanatics who believe that if they kill they become martyrs and get 72 virgins in heaven. What kind of God would turn heaven into a hell for virgins?

Ntombizonke

Zim is ALREADY a war zone. Presumably you are Zanu-PF so you don’t mind as long as it is not your side getting killed.

Thuthukani

Rivers being blocked and no seeds and fertiliser to black farmers? These are alleged facts, not just opinions. Facts have to be based on sources. Can we have yours please, because mine show the opposite to have been true.

If Great Zimbabwe has Arab artifacts it was probably, like Timbuktu, a centre of the Arab slave trade. There was trade in gold - but the slave trade was much larger and much more lucrative. Don’t feel bad about it - the Romans also took conquered people as slaves.It was not just the African chiefs that sold their conquered rivals as slaves. The whole world did.

Promminence

Morgan knows exactly what he is doing. He led Mugabe into a trap. If he had pulled out of the race earlier Mugabe’s thugs would not have been as violent - and Mugabe would not have been exposed for the thug that he is.

Africa belongs to the Africans, depends on what you mean by African - people born here or people who are black?

Klipspaaider

Good point. Why DID Sally Mugabe, Mbeki and all the others live in the West during the liberation struggle and not in African countries?

Amused Reader

The reason the blacks of Zim increased from 300,000 to 5 million in 90 years after the settlers arrived, and doubled in a generation, is because they kept having 10 children - but because of Western Medicine 8 did not die. Plus the settlers stopped the tribal wars.

Everyone also forgets that 3 million farmworkers also got displaced from their jobs.

No-one seems to query the first presidential vote - which was also probably rigged. Why else would it take 21 days to count the first time? There were no monitors for that vote. I believe Morgan won that as well by much more than the rigged figure which forced a run off.

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Mr. Moyo (i’ll accord you this respect as African culture dictates).
Although African culture does not allow for a youngster to correct his elders, i will go against it especially as you mentioned my country of birth, Botswana.

Our government has denounced the elections and current Zim government(if at all it can be called that). Unlike most African leaders we have come out and spoken aginst the madness that is Zim. We have seen the suffering of the ordinary Zim citizen first hand as the multitudes of Zimbabwean cross(legally and illegally) into our country.

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@Todd Kid.
You obviously have not really studied the demographiics of Zimbabwe. In actual fact the Majority of the land belonged to the Government in the form of Tribal land. Sure the COMMERCIAL FARMERS (Majority white) owned a substantial amount of the privately owned land and this was because we bought it. Some of us bought it under Mugabe’s Government with supposed full legal rights.
With regards the land that the whites owned before independence, Mr Mugabe had 25 years in which to effect a more equitable situation.Surely you understand that as populations grow so does the need for social change.

One thing you should bear in mind is that Mugabe would have had nothing to give away if it wasn’t for the fact that his colonial predecessors hadn’t established the boundary lines to that country and indeed the boundary lines to those farms that he has given to his cronies.All indications are that Africa is heading towards what it was before it was colonised and as history repeats itself I reckon the next colonisers will be the Chinese, I don’t think that they’ll have much of a moral concience as the British did.
I can’t explain why the commercial farmers happened to be white!. Maybe you need to question that and study harder.

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Lyndall Beddy are you trying to tell me black people should thank white people for saving them from extinction (”but because of Western Medicine 8 did not die. Plus the settlers stopped the tribal wars.”) thats the same racist attitude i have with all the people who are on about Zim and its issues. 1st Zimbabwe is what it is because of Mugabe and white people (CFU and the western governments) they did all they could to make him look good and when he turned around to take the farms they did all they could to destroy the country. Whats so special about the Zim issue now, beacuse white people lost their land an a few died?

J W Braunstein the British didnt have and still dont have a moral conscience arent they the same people who knighted Mad Bob when he was killing Ndebeles in Zim?

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@Lyndall Beddy
i respect yo view but i must its bit misguided as you fail to consider that morgan pulled out of the presidential election but went on to field candidates on a by-election of which one of his candiadate won.this exposes morgan;s inconsistence and lack of vision as a leader.Africa belongs to Africa simply means that it wont belong to chinese neither can black americans claim a share in american resources as they r already excluded from any political and economic process.Jus don raise the obama and condoleeza issue coz they r juss ceremonial leaders.
The problem in Africa is not racism but our leaders failing us the elctorate.

@ Klipspaaider
Sally Mugabe and Mbeki lived in the west during the struggle becoz they were cowards never wanted to go to front and fight along fellow africans.The war was fought in africa not in europe thus the reason why u find that zuma is more popular than mbeki becoz his poitical career is rooted in the masses on the ground he bled and cried with them.simply tsvangirai shld have done the same but he chose to run to the dutch embassy not only that after the march 29 election he left to botswana.Tsvangirai is a man and shld fight his on battles and seek assistance from his people who support him.For far too long he has been accuse by the regime that he is western puppet,him running to the dutch embassy substaiated that fact.Tsvangirai shld fight along side his brothers,its along walk to freedom,he shld learn from late joshua Nkomo(from the mistakes and his good deeds).

A good leader does not compromise on principles.

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Clay

It was a Brtish Junior Journalist at the BBC who broke the story about the murders in Matabeleland. The area was sealed off and he sneaked in disguised as a priest. The murders were covered up fast and the bodies moved - and then journalists given a grand tour of the area escorted by Zanu-PF. The proof had gone and most people were afraid to speak. The journalist was warned he was about to be arrested by a policeman - and he skipped. It was years before the evidence really started to emerge.

J W Braunstein

Black men did not farm in Black culture - the women did the cultivating. They had no draft animals only hand hoes - so only cultivated on shallow soil, not the deeper soil cultivated by the white settler. Different farming methods altogether.

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Grant W - the response to your comparison with the historical dispossession of American Indians is this: white settlers here also dispossessed Indians at gunppoint and murdered many in the process. However, today Indians are a minority in US. In South Africa and Zimbabwe the settlers historically took a different approach, they killed just enough to make the rest submit and give up the land the whites wanted and become cheap laborers. As far as I know no American Indian has come forward and claimed land, if they would - I would support them. I am sorry if you feel I am arrogant, I am not trying to be another arrogant American. But my specialty for better or worse is South African history and I think any honest reading of the history of the settlement of the western Cape, the great Trek, the conquest of Zululand by the British, the Xhosa wars and finally the implementation of the Natives lands acts reveals that white settlers took South Africa’s land at gunpoint because they simply had better weapons than black South Africans.

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Without education in farming, and providing sufficient money to farm properly, to give land that is needed to provide food for the rest of your country to survive on, is absolute madness. Look at the prices we are paying for the basics now.
Over 50% of our food production has been destroyed by providing arable land to those that are incapable of farming, not from a lack of will, but of education.
On another topic: Could someone correct me if I am wrong, but according to the history books that I read as a kid, did the “boers” not trek into the open veld until they met the Zulu’s and Xhosa’s who were coming down from further up country? Does this not lead to the understanding that the settled - farming- land was underutilized to a large degree? I seem to remember that there were then no Zulu’s or Xhosa’s below some or other river , yet now they are ancestrally claiming land all over the country.

Fair, I believe, is fair; educate people and then give them the tools to apply what they have learnt. This will breed self respect, a culture of fellow Africans living and respecting each other.

Right now, the only thing that will save South Africa is prayer and the creation of a great many jobs that require the absolute minimum of skills so that people can learn self respect, put their kids through school - without burning the school down- so that the kids can have a better life than the parents did.

But that is only my take on the current situation.

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just sharing this http://www.thezimbabweindependent.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20692:new-divisions-rock-mdc&catid=31:local-zimbabwe-stories&Itemid=66

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@todd, as a white American with interests in SA, I am ashamed of your view that land redistribution is some sort of end all solution. I am very glad for the above comments. It is good that these programs are moving rather slowly in SA. The few redistributions in SA have resulted in cooperatives or sole agents running these farms rather quickly into the ground. Sorry to tell you that Africa does not belong to blacks. Rather, some sort of clannish tribalism is ignoring that we all came from Africa, black or white. As best I can tell, the general attitude has nothing to do with race, but rather, can I take something for myself from another, and at the same time blame some form of servitude for an economic imbalance.
Watch as simplistic populist demagoguery takes your philosophy to fruition in the next years and the people of South Africa really suffer, becoming greater Zimbabwe.

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Greg

You don’t even know your own country! There are Americans doing DNA tests to try and prove they have Indian blood to qualify for the benefits being given - including land rights!

Every conquest was by superior weapons - including the Monguls, The Turks, the Roman Empire and the Chinese!

Martin

You are right. The Xhosa were trekking down, and the whites from the Cape Colony were moving up the coast. They met at the Kei River. Then the British brought in settlers from Britain after the Napoleonic Wars ended to strengthen the border against Xhosa cattle raids.

Zulu were a different story. Their land was further up the coast. The Brits originally established a small trading colony and then colonised the area. But the Zulu were killing off all the other tribes and assimilating their women.One of the reasons the Xhosa were fleeing South, where they met the whites, was to escape the Zulu.

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Lyndall
Are you also named Owen?
Anyway, If Bush sends his troops into a war that should not have been authorised if truth prevailed, blame for the deaths lies with Bush!- killing his soldiers in an illegal invasion.

You must be living in another planet if you never read in the news that American soldiers were involved in what they call friendly fire-killing their own.

You must also be living in another universe if news that the American soldiers killed civilians-then claimed wrong intelligence(stupidity!)-in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And my case is anybody who kills is a murderer and must be brought to book. I hope the International Criminal Court is busy doing body counts in Iraq and Afghanistan with a view to prosecuting Bush, B-liar for the genocide they are committing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Thuthukani Mkhize
Your comments are tedious, you fill space with boring quotations. It is trash and ignorance of the Blerrie Yankee, trying to tell us what we should do, that drives me crazy.
Toddytjie - Go sort out your own Bush Person. We do not want your opinion. Anyway, you have not yet defined yourselves, African laugh at you. Leave The “Africans” to kill off their citizens. They are too busy annihilating their opponents, to care what you think.
Mkhize - You want to talk 1700+
Africa was a WILDERNESS; explorers called it the “DARK CONTINENT.’ not due to skin colour - it was undeveloped, wild landscape and ferocious animals roamed freely. Except for small pockets of huts and people.
That is the “land” that should be handed back, yes, I agree “handed back as it was.”
I say farmers burn everything to the ground and when the first rains come - the earth will resume its 1700+ appearance. No sign of a cursed white man. They have left for civilization.
Round up wild animals and let them roam free. Give back the land it was given by them. Bush.
Yes moyo, you are not alone. I agree, Africa is crazy; I am crazy from anger. The TV promises: “South Africa full of possibilities.”
I disown the land of my forefathers. Africa is doomed not from Western culture but indigenous inhabitants, national murder.
Between the Liberators, Plagues, genocide, xenophobia, random murders, crazy dictators, child killers - Western beliefs are irrelevant. Leave Africa to the Africans. Philanthropy for Africa? WHY? They do not want it.
I say ‘they,’as I am no longer an African, I am too ashamed of the connotation and the horrors compounded by them. I am an alien.

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Bilal

“Friendly Fire” happens in every war. Tell me one where it has not? It is OBVIOUSLY never deliberate.

“Anyone who kills is a murderer”
Does that include suicide bombers in Israel, Afghanistan or Iraq? Does that include 9/11?

Americans are a Christian Country; first they fought Atheist Communism, now they fight Muslim Fundamentalism.

As in all wars there are heros and villans on both sides.

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“The one that takes the cup, of course: Mugabe tussles with Julian Manyon, a journalist from ITN. Mugabe has lost it. I must say that I did not like the way the journalist also handled himself. I think he was disrespectful and patronising. He could have still asked the same questions in a more dignified manner. But such is the role of a journalist, I suppose.”

Yes, very much the role and indeed the duty of a journalist.

Mugabe deserves no respect. Even if he were just another politician, Julian Manyon would have been well within his rights to have asked Mugabe the questions he did. As it is, Mugabe is a power-crazed, blood-soaked thug who deserves to be treated only with utter contempt.

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Mr Moyo,
Thank you for a thoughtful and incisive piece.
Perhaps the easiest way of viewing this sordid business is to close your eyes and imagine that Mugabe is white.
It all takes on a competely different aspect then.

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Mugabe is mad!
I am a medical doctor by the way and there is a condition known as tertiary syphylis. I am afraid that poor old man suffers from this disease. You have put it plainly that all his actions before and after his ’so called election’ defy all logic. His emotional outburst at that ‘bloody idiot’ in Egypt really potrayed his madness. It is a pity that tertiary syphylis is untretable and we therefore await immediate removal of that ditactor from the throne by God of cause.

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Mr. David Hurst:

I’m glad that a white American is reading the Mail and Guardian; however, I stand by my word: Africa should not be dominated by Europeans while natives go starving. The white man wants to dominate the world but his time is up. Blacks world wide support Mugbe and we’re ready to die for an Africa free of Europeand domination. Whites dominate here in America; they own all the land and the economy. It’s hard for white people to view blacks as equals because they’ve dominated blacks for so long. However, the tide is turing and we’re mindfully of our history with Europeans. I’m not a racist but I’m a realist: Africa should be for Africans. I make no apologies for this view.

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@Todd Kidd: “I want to visit South Africa but I want it to owned by black Africans”

In that case, I want to visit America, but I want it to be owned by Native Americans (i.e. American Indians).

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To Todd Kidd,
I understand that all black troubles are because of Europeans, now, and then. Any economy runs successfully because of self interest of the parties and their skill level. The true revolution will occur when color is not a factor. For a time, there will always be disparity, sometimes radical. The next step in your argument is Cambodia, from race to class and education in ownership and participation in the economy. I agree that ownership of what can be developed should belong to the majority, with compensation for those with vision that pointed the way. That which is developed should let lie, because classically mucking with it has hurt the poor deeply. I am radically to the left, yet, one must be practical. I think in your lifetime you will see that Africa is not for Africans, that the world is rapidly becoming one community. Wealth, that is another matter. Wealth in America is being concentrated rapidly in the hands of middle easterners and Chinese, exponentially. When you wake up tomorrow, your world will be different. SA will be different. No revolution can stand in the way. Sounds very patriotic though, keep the west out and let our banana/mineral dictatorships whip the poor into line, it ain’t going to change. I have seen the children of the SA rich and they are black, and nothing is changing. I must laugh that Zim is the result of a western conspiracy. And with this thinking, it is clear how low SA is going, and fast. Cool violence guy, endemic petty corruption, and grand corruption, well documented. Can’t wait for Zuma to show that his trial is an election year set up, like OJ’s. I am shocked by such a beautiful and vibrant country where I am moving could be so ignorant of its needs. Good luck to you Komrade Todd. Everything is good.

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