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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s pretend it&#8217;s curry wurst dripping through her scarf?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/</link>
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		<title>By: peppi</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-2/#comment-103520</link>
		<dc:creator>peppi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-103520</guid>
		<description>@azad

well no problem - send me your e-mail address.

but one issue is already the question if there will be more referendums like the one in switzerland in other european countries - which raises questions about direct democracy a.s.o.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@azad</p>
<p>well no problem &#8211; send me your e-mail address.</p>
<p>but one issue is already the question if there will be more referendums like the one in switzerland in other european countries &#8211; which raises questions about direct democracy a.s.o.</p>
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		<title>By: Azad Essa</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-2/#comment-103445</link>
		<dc:creator>Azad Essa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-103445</guid>
		<description>@peppi 

thanks for the comment, Peppi. your honesty is the reason I engaged with you from the start. I hope I am able to admit when I am wrong as well...

Minarets aren&#039;t the most important things in Islam, but there is an inherent, unmistakable symbolism in the deciding to ban them...

Tariq Ramadaan - brilliant scholar - wrote something about in the Guardian - worth reading -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/29/swiss-vote-ban-minarets-fear

can you alert me to some of the issues/debates raised in the German press?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@peppi </p>
<p>thanks for the comment, Peppi. your honesty is the reason I engaged with you from the start. I hope I am able to admit when I am wrong as well&#8230;</p>
<p>Minarets aren&#8217;t the most important things in Islam, but there is an inherent, unmistakable symbolism in the deciding to ban them&#8230;</p>
<p>Tariq Ramadaan &#8211; brilliant scholar &#8211; wrote something about in the Guardian &#8211; worth reading -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/29/swiss-vote-ban-minarets-fear" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/29/swiss-vote-ban-minarets-fear</a></p>
<p>can you alert me to some of the issues/debates raised in the German press?</p>
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		<title>By: peppi</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-2/#comment-103350</link>
		<dc:creator>peppi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-103350</guid>
		<description>@Azad

i want to apologize - after the votum in switzerland and all the similar polls in german newspapers i have to conclude that i live in a deeply islamophobic country - you were right.

i am ashamed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Azad</p>
<p>i want to apologize &#8211; after the votum in switzerland and all the similar polls in german newspapers i have to conclude that i live in a deeply islamophobic country &#8211; you were right.</p>
<p>i am ashamed.</p>
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		<title>By: Azad Essa</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-2/#comment-93695</link>
		<dc:creator>Azad Essa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-93695</guid>
		<description>@ Dave Of course it is a crime against humanity! I didnt mean to trivialise it by framing &quot;release valve&quot;. 

I did scream and shout about it, alot of my work in 2007 and 2008 dealt with foreigners in Durban/xenophobic attacks. We had Projects/Seminars/Special Coverage in our newsletters etc etc.  

I dont think I need to respond to the infidel  thing because you know that is not the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dave Of course it is a crime against humanity! I didnt mean to trivialise it by framing &#8220;release valve&#8221;. </p>
<p>I did scream and shout about it, alot of my work in 2007 and 2008 dealt with foreigners in Durban/xenophobic attacks. We had Projects/Seminars/Special Coverage in our newsletters etc etc.  </p>
<p>I dont think I need to respond to the infidel  thing because you know that is not the case.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-2/#comment-93486</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-93486</guid>
		<description>@peppi,
In the quran a muslim is only allowed to have one identity, that of being a muslim.
What is the law for various European countries is immaterial. I am entitled to a British and a South African passport. 
A muslim&#039;s passport has nothing to do with his identity as a muslim. The quran insists his one true identity is as a muslim, someone who submits to the will of allah, and accepts mohammed as allah&#039;s prophet, that his identity is as a member of the ummah. He leaves islam under pain of death, no matter what his nationality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@peppi,<br />
In the quran a muslim is only allowed to have one identity, that of being a muslim.<br />
What is the law for various European countries is immaterial. I am entitled to a British and a South African passport.<br />
A muslim&#8217;s passport has nothing to do with his identity as a muslim. The quran insists his one true identity is as a muslim, someone who submits to the will of allah, and accepts mohammed as allah&#8217;s prophet, that his identity is as a member of the ummah. He leaves islam under pain of death, no matter what his nationality.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-1/#comment-93470</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-93470</guid>
		<description>@Azad
&quot;This is getting boring now. “release valve” does not mean that it is the only reason&quot;
Its a matter of perspective, isn&#039;t it? You called it a  &quot;release valve&quot; , while many of us regarded the xenophobic violence as a crime against humanity!

&quot;My hypothesis is that the issue is more an ideological one than a material one in EU&quot;
By minimizing xenophobia in SA in your previous blog you did a disservice to the 60+ deaths and thousands of refugees that still fear for their lives and live in squalor in our own country. Why aren&#039;t you screaming about this? Is it possible that you don&#039;t feel the same kinship with those infidel refugees?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Azad<br />
&#8220;This is getting boring now. “release valve” does not mean that it is the only reason&#8221;<br />
Its a matter of perspective, isn&#8217;t it? You called it a  &#8220;release valve&#8221; , while many of us regarded the xenophobic violence as a crime against humanity!</p>
<p>&#8220;My hypothesis is that the issue is more an ideological one than a material one in EU&#8221;<br />
By minimizing xenophobia in SA in your previous blog you did a disservice to the 60+ deaths and thousands of refugees that still fear for their lives and live in squalor in our own country. Why aren&#8217;t you screaming about this? Is it possible that you don&#8217;t feel the same kinship with those infidel refugees?</p>
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		<title>By: mundundu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-1/#comment-93460</link>
		<dc:creator>mundundu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-93460</guid>
		<description>and, by the way, their popularity started to wane during the recessions of the late 70s and early 80s [also known as the beginning of reagan/thatcher]. 

the german government *way back then* was trying to figure what to do with the german-born-and-raised children of their post-world war 2 largely turkish and yugoslav gastarbeiten. most of the yugoslav ones were okay [gee, i wonder why], but the turks and especially the ghanaians, not so much. so it&#039;s not like this is anything new. the sad thing, really, is that it took 20 years to pass a law that is still pretty abysmal in the eyes of people born in countries where citizenship is conferred at birth [regardless of the immigration status of the parents]. 

i never thought i&#039;d be trumpeting the horn of the united states, but the gist of immigration/naturalization in the usa is thus: you may have come illegally, but if you&#039;re paying taxes, we can work something out. [it really helps that birth certificates are local, not national, and thus extremely easy to copy/falsify.]

most other places in the world: &quot;you&#039;re the wrong color, where are you from-from? wow, these are really nice fakes. sorry we don&#039;t want you here, even if these are real documents.&quot; 

it actually reminds me of this clip [it helps to be able to understand french]:

http://tinyurl.com/kkdcqk

woman at about 1:08 -- it&#039;s shitty being black here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and, by the way, their popularity started to wane during the recessions of the late 70s and early 80s [also known as the beginning of reagan/thatcher]. </p>
<p>the german government *way back then* was trying to figure what to do with the german-born-and-raised children of their post-world war 2 largely turkish and yugoslav gastarbeiten. most of the yugoslav ones were okay [gee, i wonder why], but the turks and especially the ghanaians, not so much. so it&#8217;s not like this is anything new. the sad thing, really, is that it took 20 years to pass a law that is still pretty abysmal in the eyes of people born in countries where citizenship is conferred at birth [regardless of the immigration status of the parents]. </p>
<p>i never thought i&#8217;d be trumpeting the horn of the united states, but the gist of immigration/naturalization in the usa is thus: you may have come illegally, but if you&#8217;re paying taxes, we can work something out. [it really helps that birth certificates are local, not national, and thus extremely easy to copy/falsify.]</p>
<p>most other places in the world: &#8220;you&#8217;re the wrong color, where are you from-from? wow, these are really nice fakes. sorry we don&#8217;t want you here, even if these are real documents.&#8221; </p>
<p>it actually reminds me of this clip [it helps to be able to understand french]:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/kkdcqk" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/kkdcqk</a></p>
<p>woman at about 1:08 &#8212; it&#8217;s shitty being black here.</p>
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		<title>By: mundundu</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-1/#comment-93445</link>
		<dc:creator>mundundu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-93445</guid>
		<description>frank:

i was born automatically eligible for american, french, dutch, irish, and two other passports, and at varying points in my life travelled on three of those plus a canadian one. nice try though. 

you really need do more reasearch on the atatus within russia of both the volga germans and the konigsburg germans. under *german* citizenship law, both sets of them are eligible to live in germany. however, germany pays russia enough money to keep it from happening. now that both poland *and* lithuania [which surround kaliningrad] are part of the eu, germany is pretty much going to have to give up on keeping the konigsburg germans at bay. but since stalin shipped most of the volga germans to siberia, those folks won&#039;t be leaving en masse any time soon. 

i&#039;d rather be able to get free tertiary education than a &quot;welfare grant&quot;. if i were born in germany, educated in german schools and despite the constant &quot;these fields aren&#039;t for kids like you [read: non-whites]&quot; from teachers and guidance counselors, became eligible for a university place, only to be denied a university because i don&#039;t have the &quot;right documentation&quot; despite HAVING BEEN BORN THERE, i&#039;d be mighty pissed off. 

you see this happening throughout europe, btw. many of those who are citizens of their perspective countries end up going to uni in the uk so they can improve their english and then move to the united states. imagine that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>frank:</p>
<p>i was born automatically eligible for american, french, dutch, irish, and two other passports, and at varying points in my life travelled on three of those plus a canadian one. nice try though. </p>
<p>you really need do more reasearch on the atatus within russia of both the volga germans and the konigsburg germans. under *german* citizenship law, both sets of them are eligible to live in germany. however, germany pays russia enough money to keep it from happening. now that both poland *and* lithuania [which surround kaliningrad] are part of the eu, germany is pretty much going to have to give up on keeping the konigsburg germans at bay. but since stalin shipped most of the volga germans to siberia, those folks won&#8217;t be leaving en masse any time soon. </p>
<p>i&#8217;d rather be able to get free tertiary education than a &#8220;welfare grant&#8221;. if i were born in germany, educated in german schools and despite the constant &#8220;these fields aren&#8217;t for kids like you [read: non-whites]&#8221; from teachers and guidance counselors, became eligible for a university place, only to be denied a university because i don&#8217;t have the &#8220;right documentation&#8221; despite HAVING BEEN BORN THERE, i&#8217;d be mighty pissed off. </p>
<p>you see this happening throughout europe, btw. many of those who are citizens of their perspective countries end up going to uni in the uk so they can improve their english and then move to the united states. imagine that.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Wilking</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-1/#comment-93405</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Wilking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-93405</guid>
		<description>@ Peppy.
My partner since 26 years is black and so are most of our friends. We avoid hoity-toity whites and the other tribe of bling. Otherwise it&#039;s great to be here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Peppy.<br />
My partner since 26 years is black and so are most of our friends. We avoid hoity-toity whites and the other tribe of bling. Otherwise it&#8217;s great to be here.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Wilking</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/comment-page-1/#comment-93391</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Wilking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/azadessa/2009/09/07/lets-pretend-its-curry-wurst-dripping-through-her-scarf/#comment-93391</guid>
		<description>Mundundu
It sounds like sour grapes. Are you still waiting for your maroon document. Mozambican friends of mine had no problem to get it. They now need a visa to enter their home country since both countries do not allow dual citizenship, and Russia is no exception. Thanks for correcting me.
Your French and German must be perfect, I bet, but your information is not. Check on social grants many Turks live on and the fraction they earn for working in Turkey. Many relatives flood in as &quot;welfare- tourists&quot; hence their &#039;limited popularity&#039; and the EU&#039;s resistance of integrating Turkey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mundundu<br />
It sounds like sour grapes. Are you still waiting for your maroon document. Mozambican friends of mine had no problem to get it. They now need a visa to enter their home country since both countries do not allow dual citizenship, and Russia is no exception. Thanks for correcting me.<br />
Your French and German must be perfect, I bet, but your information is not. Check on social grants many Turks live on and the fraction they earn for working in Turkey. Many relatives flood in as &#8220;welfare- tourists&#8221; hence their &#8216;limited popularity&#8217; and the EU&#8217;s resistance of integrating Turkey.</p>
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