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	<title>Comments on: Social media: The unpaid salesforce</title>
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	<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/</link>
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		<title>By: C. Brayton</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-125488</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Brayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 20:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-125488</guid>
		<description>Some social networks are like a city street with billboards. No one minds it too much. Speech is free, so go ahead and entice me into you Calvins if you can. Others -- the most remarkable example being Orkut after the Great Brazilian Invasion -- are like a sequel to Escape From New York where the squeegee men have totally taken over. (In Rio, the squeegee men charge R$50 to secure your parking space for you. That is to say, &quot;I promise to protect your car from being stolen or damaged -- by me.&quot;

There is so much boneheaded stealth marketing going  on all the time everywhere it just makes you want to walk your dog elsewhere ... like on some obscure bulletin board or gopher:// server that reminds you of the WELL or ECHO@NYC, if you are old enough to remember those things. 

Whether or not a marketer in these environments is technically scrupulous or not -- and you people are positively Jesuitical about those scruples -- does not affect the outcome: Blowback. You start treating every sexy stranger who sidles up and starts fingering their iPhone suggestively like a Jehovah&#039;s Witness. Not that tired old spiel again. I&#039;m from Brooklyn. How big of a sucker do you take me for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some social networks are like a city street with billboards. No one minds it too much. Speech is free, so go ahead and entice me into you Calvins if you can. Others &#8212; the most remarkable example being Orkut after the Great Brazilian Invasion &#8212; are like a sequel to Escape From New York where the squeegee men have totally taken over. (In Rio, the squeegee men charge R$50 to secure your parking space for you. That is to say, &#8220;I promise to protect your car from being stolen or damaged &#8212; by me.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is so much boneheaded stealth marketing going  on all the time everywhere it just makes you want to walk your dog elsewhere &#8230; like on some obscure bulletin board or gopher:// server that reminds you of the WELL or ECHO@NYC, if you are old enough to remember those things. </p>
<p>Whether or not a marketer in these environments is technically scrupulous or not &#8212; and you people are positively Jesuitical about those scruples &#8212; does not affect the outcome: Blowback. You start treating every sexy stranger who sidles up and starts fingering their iPhone suggestively like a Jehovah&#8217;s Witness. Not that tired old spiel again. I&#8217;m from Brooklyn. How big of a sucker do you take me for?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-92127</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-92127</guid>
		<description>Dave, your concerns regarding privacy, are very valid.  The point I think you&#039;ve missed however, is that we SHARE your concerns. The point I have been continually trying to make .. We are not &quot;a marketing type maybe you’re beyond feeling guilty and already justified in your mind this innocent invasion of an individual’s privacy&quot;, as you uccinctly accused.

As for defending my claims .. the point of my article was not to discuss the technicalities or ethics around social media, but rather to higlight that marketers should remember that people in these increasingly popular environments (in fact in most mediums these days), do not want to be spoken TO, but rather WITH.  WE, as consumers, will choose the brands we wish to interact with .. this is the beauty of social media environments.  And this, is exactly what we had in mind with this campaign : we gave participants the freedom of choice.  THEY decided if they wanted to share it with friends.  Nobody was &quot;conned&quot; into doing anything, and nothing unethical was undertaken with regard to privacy.  I think the results speak for themselves.  If nobody enjoyed the campaign, they wouldn&#039;t have shared it (NB : THEY, the &quot;unpaid sales force&quot;).  Much like word of mouth .. same outcome.

Yes, there are unscrupulous marketers.  My point is .. we do not use these practices.  And nor did the campaign we ran.

Thank you for your well wishes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, your concerns regarding privacy, are very valid.  The point I think you&#8217;ve missed however, is that we SHARE your concerns. The point I have been continually trying to make .. We are not &#8220;a marketing type maybe you’re beyond feeling guilty and already justified in your mind this innocent invasion of an individual’s privacy&#8221;, as you uccinctly accused.</p>
<p>As for defending my claims .. the point of my article was not to discuss the technicalities or ethics around social media, but rather to higlight that marketers should remember that people in these increasingly popular environments (in fact in most mediums these days), do not want to be spoken TO, but rather WITH.  WE, as consumers, will choose the brands we wish to interact with .. this is the beauty of social media environments.  And this, is exactly what we had in mind with this campaign : we gave participants the freedom of choice.  THEY decided if they wanted to share it with friends.  Nobody was &#8220;conned&#8221; into doing anything, and nothing unethical was undertaken with regard to privacy.  I think the results speak for themselves.  If nobody enjoyed the campaign, they wouldn&#8217;t have shared it (NB : THEY, the &#8220;unpaid sales force&#8221;).  Much like word of mouth .. same outcome.</p>
<p>Yes, there are unscrupulous marketers.  My point is .. we do not use these practices.  And nor did the campaign we ran.</p>
<p>Thank you for your well wishes.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-92066</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-92066</guid>
		<description>Dear Andrea, 
When you speak on a public forum and sing the praises of &quot;Social media: The unpaid salesforce&quot; you should be able to defend your claims both technically and ethically. 

Thanks for the offer to &quot;explain&quot; things to me offline but my concerns about privacy on FB are valid and have been corroborated by recent changes in FB privacy policies. 

I think we tend to communicate on slightly different frequencies which gives rise to misunderstandings on many levels since without a firm technical understanding of how FB applications really work makes this discussion moot. Making this a personal issues between us in unwarranted since I harbor no ill-feelings towards you or your business.  In fact, I wish you prosperity in your business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Andrea,<br />
When you speak on a public forum and sing the praises of &#8220;Social media: The unpaid salesforce&#8221; you should be able to defend your claims both technically and ethically. </p>
<p>Thanks for the offer to &#8220;explain&#8221; things to me offline but my concerns about privacy on FB are valid and have been corroborated by recent changes in FB privacy policies. </p>
<p>I think we tend to communicate on slightly different frequencies which gives rise to misunderstandings on many levels since without a firm technical understanding of how FB applications really work makes this discussion moot. Making this a personal issues between us in unwarranted since I harbor no ill-feelings towards you or your business.  In fact, I wish you prosperity in your business.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-91919</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-91919</guid>
		<description>It makes a person think twice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It makes a person think twice.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-91293</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-91293</guid>
		<description>Dear Dave

We are of course thrilled with the news, as there is no place for unethical marketing .

However, I still don&#039;t believe you understand what the campaign/competition we ran was all about, nor have you paid any attention to my many responses to your continuous hammering and unqualified accusations, or you would not continue to imply that we use unethical marketing practices, or don&#039;t take user privacy seriously.  Once again, you are gravely mistaken on this point, and if you happened to do business with us, you would know this. 

Alas, I cannot make it any clearer to you, and if you continue to believe this, that is your prerogative, and as stated previously ... you need to do what you need to do.  But to continue to slander an individual who has made things VERY clear to you (ad nauseum), in an open forum ... THAT, borders on unethical.  

From what I can see, you take issue with many articles on ThoughtLeader.  Unfortunately, I have been one of your numerous targets, but I honestly and truly have explained very clearly in my opinion, and if you still don’t understand, I suggest you contact me personally so that I can draw you a picture.

I quote :
&quot;Once again, there is no further information being passed to us, or iBurst, than what is willingly disclosed by the entrant&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dave</p>
<p>We are of course thrilled with the news, as there is no place for unethical marketing .</p>
<p>However, I still don&#8217;t believe you understand what the campaign/competition we ran was all about, nor have you paid any attention to my many responses to your continuous hammering and unqualified accusations, or you would not continue to imply that we use unethical marketing practices, or don&#8217;t take user privacy seriously.  Once again, you are gravely mistaken on this point, and if you happened to do business with us, you would know this. </p>
<p>Alas, I cannot make it any clearer to you, and if you continue to believe this, that is your prerogative, and as stated previously &#8230; you need to do what you need to do.  But to continue to slander an individual who has made things VERY clear to you (ad nauseum), in an open forum &#8230; THAT, borders on unethical.  </p>
<p>From what I can see, you take issue with many articles on ThoughtLeader.  Unfortunately, I have been one of your numerous targets, but I honestly and truly have explained very clearly in my opinion, and if you still don’t understand, I suggest you contact me personally so that I can draw you a picture.</p>
<p>I quote :<br />
&#8220;Once again, there is no further information being passed to us, or iBurst, than what is willingly disclosed by the entrant&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-91242</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-91242</guid>
		<description>Dear Andrea, 
Now that Facebook have reformed their ways and taking users privacy more seriously perhaps you can too. In recent news http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-08-28-facebook-forced-to-tighten-up-privacy-rules  Facebook states that:
&quot;Application developers will have to specify which categories of data the software needs, so users can decide accordingly. Specifically, the application will have to tell users why it wants very sensitive information, such as date of birth. Users will also have to specifically approve any access Facebook applications have to their friends&#039; information. Such access still would be subject to the friend&#039;s privacy and application settings.&quot;

So apparently, we DO care about privacy after all. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Andrea,<br />
Now that Facebook have reformed their ways and taking users privacy more seriously perhaps you can too. In recent news <a href="http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-08-28-facebook-forced-to-tighten-up-privacy-rules" rel="nofollow">http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-08-28-facebook-forced-to-tighten-up-privacy-rules</a>  Facebook states that:<br />
&#8220;Application developers will have to specify which categories of data the software needs, so users can decide accordingly. Specifically, the application will have to tell users why it wants very sensitive information, such as date of birth. Users will also have to specifically approve any access Facebook applications have to their friends&#8217; information. Such access still would be subject to the friend&#8217;s privacy and application settings.&#8221;</p>
<p>So apparently, we DO care about privacy after all. <img src='http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-87555</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-87555</guid>
		<description>No Dave, I can simply appreciate the freedom of choice social media provides ... partake in the conversation, or don&#039;t.  Much like .. enter competitions, or don&#039;t.

You certainly seem like an avid social media fan to me! You really should consider starting your own blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Dave, I can simply appreciate the freedom of choice social media provides &#8230; partake in the conversation, or don&#8217;t.  Much like .. enter competitions, or don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>You certainly seem like an avid social media fan to me! You really should consider starting your own blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-87493</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-87493</guid>
		<description>See Andrea, maybe now you can appreciate why the extremism that you and Benzol indulge in &quot;take it or leave it&quot; attitude, breaks down communication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See Andrea, maybe now you can appreciate why the extremism that you and Benzol indulge in &#8220;take it or leave it&#8221; attitude, breaks down communication.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-87449</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-87449</guid>
		<description>Dear Dave

I do believe I have given ample explanation of how this campaign works.  To answer your new question ... a social ad is an ad placement on Facebook.  This was just one platform used to seed the campaign.  Social ads are NOT a Facebook application.  The widget, runs at the end of banners (run on other sites) as well as at the end of the game, which is NOT hosted on Facebook.

If you still don&#039;t understand the mechanics, and have concerns about Facebook privacy, that is a matter you need to take up with Facebook directly.

When an opinion piece about the merits of social media turns to &quot;hijacking&quot; and &quot;rape&quot;... this is where the conversation ends for me.

Thank you for your interest in our campaign</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dave</p>
<p>I do believe I have given ample explanation of how this campaign works.  To answer your new question &#8230; a social ad is an ad placement on Facebook.  This was just one platform used to seed the campaign.  Social ads are NOT a Facebook application.  The widget, runs at the end of banners (run on other sites) as well as at the end of the game, which is NOT hosted on Facebook.</p>
<p>If you still don&#8217;t understand the mechanics, and have concerns about Facebook privacy, that is a matter you need to take up with Facebook directly.</p>
<p>When an opinion piece about the merits of social media turns to &#8220;hijacking&#8221; and &#8220;rape&#8221;&#8230; this is where the conversation ends for me.</p>
<p>Thank you for your interest in our campaign</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/comment-page-1/#comment-87429</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/andreamitchell/2009/07/10/social-media-the-unapid-sales-force/#comment-87429</guid>
		<description>Dear Andrea, first you say: 
&quot;The campaign was seeded with a conservative budget through social ads on Facebook&quot;
Now you say &quot;The widget, is not a Facebook application. It simply allows users to SHARE the competition.&quot;

OK, so if the widget is NOT a Facebook application/widget how in the world can your application figure out who the Facebook users friends are to share the app/competition if not through some social networking platform like Facebook, Twitter etc.? Web telepathy, clairvoyance or voodoo?

I&#039;m disappointed and saddened that you resort to Benzol&#039;s brand of extremism that is the cause of so much of SA societies ills - &quot;if you feel uncomfortable with it...don&#039;t go online&quot;. Similar to saying if you don&#039;t want to be carjacked, don&#039;t drive a car; if you don&#039;t like being raped, don&#039;t wear a short skirt....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Andrea, first you say:<br />
&#8220;The campaign was seeded with a conservative budget through social ads on Facebook&#8221;<br />
Now you say &#8220;The widget, is not a Facebook application. It simply allows users to SHARE the competition.&#8221;</p>
<p>OK, so if the widget is NOT a Facebook application/widget how in the world can your application figure out who the Facebook users friends are to share the app/competition if not through some social networking platform like Facebook, Twitter etc.? Web telepathy, clairvoyance or voodoo?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m disappointed and saddened that you resort to Benzol&#8217;s brand of extremism that is the cause of so much of SA societies ills &#8211; &#8220;if you feel uncomfortable with it&#8230;don&#8217;t go online&#8221;. Similar to saying if you don&#8217;t want to be carjacked, don&#8217;t drive a car; if you don&#8217;t like being raped, don&#8217;t wear a short skirt&#8230;.</p>
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